I am not sure this is helpful to this discussion BUT…I drink a good bit of Champagne both aged and young. WHILE I DO NOT DECANT, I almost always drink them from a large burgundy glass (which provides lots of surface air). So I guess I decant in BIG Glasses!!
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Funny! I don’t decant his either since they are lower pressure to begin with, and I’m not convinced air helps them.
Cedric would be happy if his wine had no bubbles.
-Al
This is hard enough to find, let’s not make it more scarce😀
In addition to posting this thread here, I also sent the original post to an email list of folks that receive my tasting notes and other wine related info. Here’s some feedback from a couple of them:
“My own, unscientific, experience is that I am less inclined to decant champagne than either red or white Burgundy. That being said, I have had good results occasionally decanting younger, well-made champagne.”
"Please note this is strictly my thoughts on this subject, and I do no know if I am right or wrong, or if there is a “right or wrong” procedure on this subject!
Personally I have experienced many both sparkling and still white wines improving after time in the glass, and or after time with the bottle open(presumably oxidizing). Similar to red wines.
So I have then developed the opinion that decanting, or at least allowing a bottle to be open for a specified amount of time, will allow certain aspects of the wine’s aromas, and or flavors to change, develop, or “blow off”. Time open can vary depending on wine and vintage. Therefore I have often either decanted or at least opened my sparkling and still white wines ahead of the time I anticipate drinking them, like I typically do with my red wines. However unlike my red wines, I have found that sparkling or still white wines, typically need far less open time to reach their optimum aromas and flavors. And as I do not want to “overdo” the oxidation which my sparkling and still white wines incur, I typically err on the side of caution, and routinely give these bottle about 15 minutes of “air time” prior to serving. I find this works best for my nose and palate."
I’m not sure he thinks quite like that any more, I think he has come to terms with bubbles. Maybe this is because he has finally found a place where he’s able to make still wines that satisfy him. What remains very much the case, of course, is that he wants his Champagnes to be first and foremost wines, with the bubbles serving in only an ancillary role.
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I don’t mind decanting champagnes if done so with purpose.
For example, I prefer decanting Selosse champagnes. All of them, and to my personal taste they benefit a lot from decanting opening up extra layers.
I also like to decant most of Cedric Bouchard’s champagnes and my observations convince me that the longer the better. Recent experience with Haute-Lemblé 2008 after couple hours of decanting was sublime!
I find champagnes of Ulysse Collin also benefit from decanting. It amplifies the expressiveness of these outstanding champagnes.
Whenever I decant, I keep both the champagne and the decanter cold. Once decanted, I keep champagne in the wine cabinet at 12C for as long as I need it.
For the most of champagnes I follow the same routine: uncork the bottle, pour a sip in the glass to lower the level of champagne in the bottle a bit and leave it vertically open in the wine cabinet at the serving temperature for about 40min to 1 hour. That opens up champagnes and my experience shows it is the best way of serving champagnes.
And lastly, I would like to point out the recent accessory which Billecart-Salmon released to market - magnum decanter. I understand it is a limited edition, but such merchandise from a respected maison justifies the concept of decanting.
Cheers!
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I mean, I hear they know how to make wine without bubbles now. He could learn.
And here are 2 more responses I received from my email list on this subject:
“Blake: bottom line of my response: why decant it at all, for any reason? It’s clear that the downside (loss of the carbonation) is a huge one. Of the very, very few times I’ve resorted to this, primarily because of sediment on older ones, I was sorry that I did. It’s easy to test either position – take two identical bottles, decant one and not the other, and see what the difference is, especially after 15-20 minutes. I may try that sometime. Thanks for the quandary.”
“I believe you can do both and do it often with better champagnes. I enjoy it when it is first poured. Then with fine champagnes I like to let it sit in my glass for 30 minutes to an hour. Then retaste to see the differences. It is a wonderful thing to do.”
I would never say that! But I often say “Chevalier with bubbles.” I wish I could drink more Montrachet! And use other metaphors.
In general, I am not a fan of decanting and there are only a few ways that I have ever enjoyed Champagne decanted (not counting Coteaux Champenois). These are cases of what I would call “flash” decanting that can help the wine if it is needs to quickly get to a certain state of service.
- young and the entire bottle is going to be quickly poured and consumed
- young, very reductive, and also going to be consumed fairly quickly
- in need of a lower pressure to better match with a particular dish (especially sweeter dishes and dessert).
In all of the above cases, the key is that you wanted to quickly get a glass of the wine to match a specific purpose where you couldn’t wait around for the wine to breathe, warm up, and open up in the bottle and/or glass. You needed to open, pour, and have the wine ready to consume ASAP.
What I consider flash decanting is a chilled decanter that is rather narrow in shape, doesn’t have a lot of free air space and has a very narrow spout for pouring. The decanter should be pre-chilled, the bottle poured into the decanter and the decanter then quickly emptied into glasses which are served and enjoyed. Extended decanter time does more harm than good; you just want to give the wine a gentle shock and open the wine up for quick consumption.
As mentioned above, for some food matching especially with sweeter dishes, the bubbles in most Champagne can be a bit too aggressive. Decanting will make a regular Champagne more like a classic cremant style (6 atm vs. 4 atm) which gives the wine a creamier, more friendly mouth feel.
I still think the best tact (when possible) is to follow a wine over time and let it breathe in the bottle and a reasonably sized glass. This allows you to more closely track how the wine evolves. Decanters and very large, wide bowl glasses narrow the peak of the drinking window too much for me. The end result is that you have a much shorter window of time to hit and find a wine’s sweet spot and I feel you miss out on a lot of the pleasure.
The above is based on my experiences over the years, but others may see it differently especially if they are only having one glass from the bottle, serving the entire bottle instantly to a group, serving it with a sweeter dish, and not following the wine for hours.
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Excellent Brad. Was hoping you would add on here and so you did with some brilliant discussion and suggestions.
You stated: " Extended decanter time does more harm than good; you just want to give the wine a gentle shock and open the wine up for quick consumption." Please elaborate on the harmful effects. Thanks.
Yeah, never had a Champagne that reminded me of Montrachet.
-Al
I find the wine often opens and warms up faster than I would like vs. just sitting in the bottle. You miss the full evolution of the wine and often don’t see it hit its ‘peak’ of the evening.
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And 2 more responses from my email list:
“IMHO:
Decant various types of white wines (Burgundy, including Chablis, Rhone, etc): Yes, can release aromatics and disperse off aromas, if present
Decant Champagne: No, part of the enjoyment of Champagne is the effervescence and “seeing stars”, while those bubbles themselves release the aromatics that decanting would not additionally contribute.”
“I once tasted with the winemaker from Veuve Clicquot. He recommended decanting the Demi Sec. He poured it straight from the bottle and then decanted the rest in the bottle and poured me a glass of that to compare. The decanted glass was much creamier and by far better than the glass poured directly from bottle.”
That’s my feeling too. I like when the bubbles mellow a bit but it feels like a decanter is too much, or might be too much later in the evening. Plus I often don’t have room in my fridge for a decanter.
Question for the group, relating to decanting wines that are in the maybe category for aeration purposes — does anyone decant somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the bottle, and leave the rest in? I do that sometimes to get the early glasses ready sooner, but leave the rest to breathe slowly and be good later in the evening.
It feels like that might be a good plan if you were aerating champagne.
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Never done that Chris. Does the remainder ever catch up with the decanted wine? It seems like it would take a lot longer for them to equal out.
I’ve done this exact same comparison with Clicquot. The problem with sweeter Champagnes is that if they are a more traditional pressure bottling (6atm), the bubbles can fight with the sweetness and create a harsh mouthfeel that often gets even worse when paired with food/dessert. A quick decant for instant service, food pairing, and consumption is a good example of when decanting can help.
If you have time to let the wine breathe and sit around in the bottle and glass then you can get to the same place, but that isn’t always possible with time/dining constraints.