Do you buy bottles with "Signs of past seepage"

[jordan_jacobs]

A few years ago I saw an 87 Dunn HM with minimal seepage. At the time they were going for 200 to 250. I was able to get this one on auction for $165 and took my chances. It was fine

I consigned several vintages of older - 80s and 90s - Dunn HM to an auction several years ago. I had moved the wines from my 55 degree storage room to my living room, maybe 72 degrees, for boxing before they were picked up for shipment to the auction house. In the course of an hour or two, the wine had warmed and expanded enough that several of the bottles started seeping under the wax. Having purchased the wines directly from Dunn on release and storing them properly since then, I was still comfortable sending the wines to auction. The wines were cataloged with the notation “signs of recent seepage”, but the photographs showed excellent fills and the wax was still intact, indicating the cork hadn’t pushed a bit. The cork’s seal was obviously compromised to some extent, though, and in my view, the wines wouldn’t be good candidates for further extended aging. On the other hand, I’m confident the buyers got a fine bottle that was representative of a 20-30 year old Dunn HM.

Did they hammer lower than expected?

[jordan_jacobs]

I almost never risk it with SOS. I have had a number come my way that were either labeled as such and I missed it. Misrepresented or undisclosed, or affected during shipping. I would say the ratio of wines still representative of their true self versus bottles gone bad is 4:1.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Have had plenty of older wines over the years where there has been seepage. The strike rate on opening a good wine is remarkably high.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

I never buy wines with SoPS.

[Scott_Jameson]

A few years ago I saw an 87 Dunn HM with minimal seepage. At the time they were going for 200 to 250. I was able to get this one on auction for $165 and took my chances. It was fine

I consigned several vintages of older - 80s and 90s - Dunn HM to an auction several years ago. I had moved the wines from my 55 degree storage room to my living room, maybe 72 degrees, for boxing before they were picked up for shipment to the auction house. In the course of an hour or two, the wine had warmed and expanded enough that several of the bottles started seeping under the wax. Having purchased the wines directly from Dunn on release and storing them properly since then, I was still comfortable sending the wines to auction. The wines were cataloged with the notation “signs of recent seepage”, but the photographs showed excellent fills and the wax was still intact, indicating the cork hadn’t pushed a bit. The cork’s seal was obviously compromised to some extent, though, and in my view, the wines wouldn’t be good candidates for further extended aging. On the other hand, I’m confident the buyers got a fine bottle that was representative of a 20-30 year old Dunn HM.

Did they hammer lower than expected?

My recollection is they realized what I expected - at least I don’t remember being disappointed with the results. Of course, it’s impossible to tell if they would have hammered higher if they were pristine bottles.

[Marshall_Manning]

Never, unless it’s $5 or something. I’m always amazed at the high prices that people pay for obvious leakers on Brentwood’s auctions.

[Albert_R]

Never!

[brodie_thomson]

Have had plenty of older wines over the years where there has been seepage. The strike rate on opening a good wine is remarkably high.

Yes - has similar experiences, I suspect a lot of the posters from the USA on this thread are talking about much younger wines that have been likely been subject to heat damage

[Noah_C]

Why do people tend to give German Riesling and Port a pass? Is it because these wines somehow are more resilient to leaking, or because they are more prone to leaky corks? I am specifically interested in buying an older Alsatian Riesling with signs of seepage. Good producer, good vintage, no other info on the website. I could ask the seller for details, but wondering if I should bother at all.

[Vince_T]

I buy mostly reds at auction - Barolo, Burgundy, Bordeaux, Rhônes. And seepage is one of my ‘don’t buy’ keys. Others are protruding or depressed corks. Plenty of good condition bottles to bid on.

I definitely avoid seeping and protruding bottles, and am suspicious of depressed corks, but I’m not quite sure why. What kind of damage does a depressed cork typically indicate?

[David_Baum]

I never buy wines with SoPS.

[R_Frankel]

I buy mostly reds at auction - Barolo, Burgundy, Bordeaux, Rhônes. And seepage is one of my ‘don’t buy’ keys. Others are protruding or depressed corks. Plenty of good condition bottles to bid on.

I definitely avoid seeping and protruding bottles, and am suspicious of depressed corks, but I’m not quite sure why. What kind of damage does a depressed cork typically indicate?

A depressed cork could indicate error in production (cork inserted too far resulting in a faulty seal). Or multiple cycles of heating and cooling. Or being frozen. Or it could be nothing. But I have to draw a line somewhere.

[Brent_S]

Life is too short to buy expensive wines that look screwed up.

[David_Kubiak]

A few years ago I saw an 87 Dunn HM with minimal seepage. At the time they were going for 200 to 250. I was able to get this one on auction for $165 and took my chances. It was fine

I consigned several vintages of older - 80s and 90s - Dunn HM to an auction several years ago. I had moved the wines from my 55 degree storage room to my living room, maybe 72 degrees, for boxing before they were picked up for shipment to the auction house. In the course of an hour or two, the wine had warmed and expanded enough that several of the bottles started seeping under the wax. Having purchased the wines directly from Dunn on release and storing them properly since then, I was still comfortable sending the wines to auction. The wines were cataloged with the notation “signs of recent seepage”, but the photographs showed excellent fills and the wax was still intact, indicating the cork hadn’t pushed a bit. The cork’s seal was obviously compromised to some extent, though, and in my view, the wines wouldn’t be good candidates for further extended aging. On the other hand, I’m confident the buyers got a fine bottle that was representative of a 20-30 year old Dunn HM.

Seems next to impossible that the scenario you describe is possible. A few hours in the 70’s is not going to do anything to a wine, certainly not produce seepage. Are you sure they were not leakers from the start?

[Chris_Foley]

I don’t buy wine at auction but I’ve opened quite a few older bottles with signs of seepage, most notably a dried mold layer under the capsule and a wet cork all the way to the top. This includes both French reds and German sweet Rieslings.
The wine inside has been in excellent condition at least 90% of the time.

[Scott_Jameson]

A few years ago I saw an 87 Dunn HM with minimal seepage. At the time they were going for 200 to 250. I was able to get this one on auction for $165 and took my chances. It was fine

I consigned several vintages of older - 80s and 90s - Dunn HM to an auction several years ago. I had moved the wines from my 55 degree storage room to my living room, maybe 72 degrees, for boxing before they were picked up for shipment to the auction house. In the course of an hour or two, the wine had warmed and expanded enough that several of the bottles started seeping under the wax. Having purchased the wines directly from Dunn on release and storing them properly since then, I was still comfortable sending the wines to auction. The wines were cataloged with the notation “signs of recent seepage”, but the photographs showed excellent fills and the wax was still intact, indicating the cork hadn’t pushed a bit. The cork’s seal was obviously compromised to some extent, though, and in my view, the wines wouldn’t be good candidates for further extended aging. On the other hand, I’m confident the buyers got a fine bottle that was representative of a 20-30 year old Dunn HM.

Seems next to impossible that the scenario you describe is possible. A few hours in the 70’s is not going to do anything to a wine, certainly not produce seepage. Are you sure they were not leakers from the start?

If the bottles had been leaking for 20 or 30+ years, the fills would not have been well into the neck and the dried wine would have been evident on the bottle. If you have bottles of Dunn HM, especially magnums, try it yourself …

[markjchambers]

Winebid currently has some Rayas bottles. I’ve always been curious, but all of the listings mention seepage. And it’s their cotes du rhone which I know notihng about.

[scamhi]

Domaine Leroy is notorious for seepage due to overfilling and I used to buy them.

[Howard_Cooper]

Generally, no. But, a few years ago, a store had bought a bunch of wine from a private person where apparently most of the bottles were in good shape. There was, however, a 1970 Cheval Blanc with a low fill and signs of seepage. I bought it because the store, recognizing the condition of the bottle, priced it at about $55. Wine turned out to be quite excellent, although when I first opened it I thought I had wasted my money.

[Tvrtko_C]

Wondering what your policies regarding wines that are listed online as having signs of seepage. Sometimes the prices seem quite attractive. Is it worth taking the gamble? For those that have, have the wines been compromised? Are there certain types of wines that seem to fair better? This must have been covered before but I couldn’t find a good discussion of this topic. Thanks!

Worth taking the gamble? Absolutely, I jump at every opportunity. Lower price, plus the bottle has been pre-Audoozed for me. Besides, if you like skiing, there’s nothing that hits the spot like a bit of Gluehwein after a day of strenuous physical exertion. What’s not to like?