Do You Find Petit Sirah To Be Monolithic?

[Bob_Hunnicutt]

@Ian Brand

@Bob Hunnicutt

For some wines the majority are very good wines, for some grapes the majority aren’t That’s why some aren’t so popular. Recently had a CA Carignane and a Petit Verdot to remind myself, “Yeah, that’s why this shit ain’t very popular.”

Occasionally had good PS, but most are either turned into syrup or are like sucking on a sweat sock.

So this is pretty interesting for me.

Wasn’t meaning to offend anybody. I have bought PS before, but rarely do I find one I love and isn’t over-priced. Someone mentioned Zichichi of Dry Creek and I loved their PS, but not 50 bucks worth. Generally, Carignane, PV, and PS are better in blends. JMO I feel the same way about Syrah, but saying that will just lead to more issues. lol

[Adam_Frisch]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

[Mattstolz]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

dang thread back from the grave! but have you tried Hardy’s Maple PS with Dirty and Rowdy?

[Adam_Frisch]

Good tip! I like Hardy and his philosophies, but $60 for the PS gives me a little pause, gotta be honest…

[Larry_Chmel]

Try Aaron in Paso Robles. Small producer with good ps and ps blends.

[Wes_Barton]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

As I mentioned upthread, the 3 from Theopolis Vineyard are excellent: Theopolis, Halcon, Highlawn. Differing takes that are all savory and open, and reward a few years aging.

The new Ridge Vineyards ones I’ve had have had a lightness and openness to them (so, people complain they aren’t monolithic…)

Odonata makes a nice soft one.

An eye-opener was a one-off from Savannah-Chanelle from way the f&%# up in Manton Valley. Served blind, it came across as some wonderful Italian wine, tannins tamed by the volcanic soil, and lovely aromatics. Since we were getting CF from up there and talking about getting some Italian grapes grafted, I was begging Bryan to get some PS from there as a benchmark. Like, “Let’s do a 26th wine, which will be a pain to sell. It’s only a 4 hour drive each way for you. Pleeeeeease???” Well, there are (at least) two growers with massive quantities of it for dirt cheap.

[GregP]

2. To me, it has been planted in areas where it does not get ripe enough to soften some of the tannins and allow for better fruit expression.

3. Too much new American oak is often applied to try to ‘soften’ it and give it a ‘vanilla’ overlay . . .

2 very key points that so many seem to miss. Wineries as well. There was a lengthy PS thread last year, IIRC. I collect PS from only 2 areas, Calistoga and St. Helena, in that order. For the reason 2 you listed above. PS needs heat, period. Yes, I have some from outside of Calistoga and St. Helena in my 20+ year old PS stash by now, but they are exceptions to me, not a rule. Lodi, depending on producer, can produce good PS, but so may simply kill it with American oak, your point 3 above.

[John_Morris]

The only Petit Sirah that I can remember being a notable exception was an 85’ York Creek PS from Ridge.

There were some other vintages of that bottling that evolved very nicely over ten years or so. I always thought of it being in a class of its own. Haven’t had one in a long time, though.

[Arv_R]

When I’m a stranger in a strange land, and the pickings for vino are slim, I usually can’t go wrong selecting a Bogle PS. I know I’ll enjoy it and would not expend the cellar rack space for it at home.

I’ve never really tried these older - 20 to 40 year old - examples that people suggest are good. PS just seems to survive more than thrive to me as it ages (for the shorter maturities I’ve tasted, lets say sub 20 yr)

[John_Morris]

Another great one was the Concannons back in the 80s. They were crappy after a certain point – utterly commercial, candy stuff. I think they may have had to replant.

[Dan_Kravitz]

No.

[Andrew_A_r_n_t_f_i_e_l_d]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

Retro Cellars. Mike Dunn’s winery. Awesome stuff. And affordable.

[Andrew_A_r_n_t_f_i_e_l_d]

And speaking of Dunn, try to find some of Dunn Vineyard’s Petite Sirah. Only produced from 1992-1995. I think you can still purchase at least one of the vintages directly from Dunn if you call them.

Randy produced the wine for 4 vintages but didn’t bottle it until considerably later. And now his son Mike is producing the Retro Cellars PS from (I believe) the same vines.

[Andrew_Demaree]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

Retro Cellars. Mike Dunn’s winery. Awesome stuff. And affordable.

Good call.

[Mike_Grammer]

Approximately .0005% of my cellar contents are Petit Sirah, and that was a gift. Aside from finding no definition, layers, or interesting aromas, I usually detect an unpleasant metallic edge.

P Hickner

I have a bit more than that, Peter, but not much and it’s all going to be opened for WineFest V in July. The fun thing there is that I will have PS from about 7 or 8 different regions in California and across about 17 years or so of age, so I am looking forward to trying them all.

[Anton_D]

I’ve never had much luck with PS. In fact, the very opposite. What would be a good, fresher, lower alcohol producer in CA?

Retro Cellars. Mike Dunn’s winery. Awesome stuff. And affordable.

I also love and endorse Retro!

[Theodore_Anderson]

And speaking of Dunn, try to find some of Dunn Vineyard’s Petite Sirah.

I opened a '92 of this last month, it was pretty good: This needs air as it’s very tightly wound in the first few hours of being open. At hour 4 paired with braised lamb it’s finally softened enough to decipher what’s going on; iodine, ash, loam, cedar, dutched cocoa, dried mushrooms, dark berry fruit, sour, tannic, and verging on coarse without the food. It’s got this severe volcanic mineral sense that would have me calling Aglianico if it were served blind. This is years away from maturity, if it can ever actually get there. Enjoyable and possibly the most refined old Petite I’ve ever had.

I’ve collected a lot of old PS from Ridge/Freemark/Stags’ Leap over the years, primarily since it’s an interesting piece of our viticultural history here and rarely over the hill. That said, I almost never open them any more since they tend to be beasts that endure rather than mature. My vote for the most fun PS is the Ridge Essences.

[Al_Osterheld]

Another great one was the Concannons back in the 80s. They were crappy after a certain point – utterly commercial, candy stuff. I think they may have had to replant.

We had a lovely 1965 Concannon Petite Sirah at the winery (Harrington) after hand bottling a small non-commercial lot.

-Al

[Adam_Frisch]

Good tips, thanks.

I wonder how Dunn’s would be, since he seems to do pretty long macerations on his other wines, huge tannins that probably need a lot of time and a lot of air. PS being pretty tightly wound as it is, it must be an absolute tannic mountain if it receives some maceration time. Be interesting to try.

[Kirk.Grant]

We used to get some from Grist on Bradford Mountain when it got ripe. We would use it as a blender. Caymus now is taking the whole block so I’m interested to see what they are going to do with it. I’ve liked Turley’s PS from Hayne and Rattlesnake, they just take a long time.

I had a few from the list at the Mecca and one of them was an absolute rock-star. It was also 35 years old. The good news, it only cost $6 on release. My guess is that they require a lot of patience. So I’m sitting on the single bottle of PS that I have for as long as I can.