Dominique Laurent

[Tom_Blach]

@Robert Panzer

The Haegelen CV is now titled Sui Generis, and bottled as Laurent Pere et Fils (all domaine wines bottled that way)

Thanks Robert, presumably that applies to the historic ‘sui generis’ label too? I’ve only had the 99, a sensational wine.

[Robert_Panzer]

I can’t speak to that Tom. But I would presume so .

[RyanC]

@Tom Blach

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and “raise” them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about “200% new oak” and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers’ most prestigious holdings, etc…his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors’ , the Chevillons’ wines? I think not…nor to others. But…that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don’t think he really did that…though…he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the “truth” of what he mainly did…cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon’s versions…and those of Bernard Maume and others…they always seemed better values to me.

You’re right, Stuart, but at least on this side of the pond the wines fell so far out of favour that for a while they could be acquired extremely inexpensively at which point they were terrific value. Much confusion was caused by the use of new barrels but I think what people didn’t really understand was the low sulphur/high CO2 regime. What’s always impressed me particularly have been the stunning ‘little’ wines, including the best passetoutgrains of all, great Bourgogne, village old vine Savigny and Marsannay as well as grander village cuvees which can be a kind of quintessence. I will say that that my enthusiasm for these wines has raised eyebrows very high among the most informed burgundy lovers of my acquaintance.

Yes, Laurent’s basic Bourgogne is very good. A couple years ago I picked up a case of the Bourgogne Haute cote de Nuits from PC for $10/per, and they were really quite nice.

[George_Chadwick]

His Vougeot was terrific in 1999 and 2002. It’s a bargain. I think he does more than one bottling of Vougeot, a sui generis and a vielles vignes.

I’d avoid all of his 1995’s. All of them.

His Series Rares are a fun idea. A gimmick – six bottles from a single commune in a single vintage, each from a different vineyard, with a big boy as the big gun (eg Morey: Roche; Gevry: Charmes Chamb) – but a fun idea. One barrel (25 cases) made per wine.

I’m the guy who keeps bringing Laurent so I can apologize to Jim Cowan. I’m a fan.

I did not like his Chambolle VV 2005, a straightforward simple wine. But a few weeks ago I had the Vosne Romanee Suchots 1999 and it’s in my top three wines of the year, the other two also being Burgs (Lambrays 2002 and Vogue Amoureuses 2003). OTOH Laurent’s 96 Suchots was tired and green, and the 2003 starts out wonderfully then a big shot of alcohol at the end. (His 2003 Ruchottes though was almost ethereal in its floral perfume and gentle liqueur like red flavors.)

Tanzer loves, loves his recent Clos de la Roches.

I think his sources for his super-grands-crus are really special but I don’t know what they are, similar to Le Moine. RSV, Musigny, and Richebourg. But priced way out of my range.

By the way, Robert, I think there was minor interest in your 2011 Laurent offering solely because at that time we were apprehensive about the vintage, with some quite negative reports. If they had been 2010’s at those prices I would have bit hard.

He’s very honest with Tanzer about his sources; he will tell Tanzer when he has permanently lost a source for a wine and the replacement source isn’t as good. That’s really unusual. He’s no huckster IMO.

[RyanC]

With all the talk of how good Laurent’s 1999 Clos Vougeot is, I looked it up and HDH has more than 5 cases of it offered for $115/per if anyone is interested:

http://www.hdhwine.com/retail-wine-detail/Clos-Vougeot/1678

[Robert_Panzer]

I’ve always found it interesting the amount of pseudo misinformation about Laurent.
It’s nice to co-construct a more coherent picture, good or bad.
Thanks guys.

[Tom_Blach]

AFAIK there’s a non VV, a VV and a ‘Sui Generis’ CV 99. It would be interesting to know which is being offered.
I’ve had some exquisite 95s, from Marsannay to Musigny.

[Marshall_Gelb]

Interesting thread as I just picked up a few bottles of the '10 Chambolle Musigny “Les Fuees.”

Cheers!
Marshall

[John_J_Vachon]

His 2002 Richebourg and Musigny were both so-so. I was very disappointed.

[A_Fenster]

@Tom Blach

@Robert Panzer

The Haegelen CV is now titled Sui Generis, and bottled as Laurent Pere et Fils (all domaine wines bottled that way)

Thanks Robert, presumably that applies to the historic ‘sui generis’ label too? I’ve only had the 99, a sensational wine.

Ahh. I have a couple of bottles of the 99 “sui generis”. Tried one a couple of years ago and it was wonderful. Didn’t know that the bottling contained Haegelyn Jayer CdV, of which I have had the 93 and 95, both of which are excellent but still young.

[Brad_England]

@Marshall Gelb

Interesting thread as I just picked up a few bottles of the '10 Chambolle Musigny “Les Fuees.”

Cheers!
Marshall

Marshall, I’ve got an 02 Richebourg on tap for when you’re here.

[Peter_Chiu]

Stuart…

I am not a fun ( of D. Laurent.)

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

I am not either, Peter…I’m not a fan nor a critic. I have little experience with his products, and, frankly, never saw the value he really added to the wines he bought…I was happy to get a Maume Mazis or any one of the Chevillons’ wines he’s bought right from their producers.

But…I think he tried too hard to portray himself as an oak magician…and came accross as a bit of clown…which is really too bad, as I think he is probably a serious negociant…though maybe the only one who started as a pastry chef. Maybe that’s why he was so flamboyant…he thought oak was his icing.

[S_Lancaster]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

I am not either, Peter…I’m not a fan nor a critic. I have little experience with his products, and, frankly, never saw the value he really added to the wines he bought…I was happy to get a Maume Mazis or any one of the Chevillons’ wines he’s bought right from their producers.

But…I think he tried too hard to portray himself as an oak magician…and came accross as a bit of clown…which is really too bad, as I think he is probably a serious negociant…though maybe the only one who started as a pastry chef. Maybe that’s why he was so flamboyant…he thought oak was his icing.

That is awesome! “He thought oak was his icing”. Funny.
On a side note…I’ve never thought his wine showed an extreme amount of oak…maybe a little on the oaky side, but nothing that would make me not purchase again because of that. Oak isn’t the issue…I’d generally just rather buy other producers from the same vineyards as I’ve never had anything close to a wow Laurent wine.

[T_Wills]

Why are a few of his labels black with gold lettering while most are regular white labels with black/red lettering? It seems to convey some special bottling or something. These black label bottles are also heavier, thicker glass.

[Robert_Panzer]

The black labels with gold lettering connote particularly OLD vines, like 90+ years old, as far as I can gather.

[john_stimson]

Per Tanzer on his forum, the white labels are often wines that represent barrels that didn’t make the final cut. the VV wines are the ones to seek–I’m presuming these wine labels are not white.

[Fred_C]

@Robert Panzer

The black labels with gold lettering connote particularly OLD vines, like 90+ years old, as far as I can gather.

Tried the 1999 VR Suchots with that label last year. Got it for $70 at KL. Delicious stuff with nice fruit along with sandalwood and spice aromas.

Grabbed the NSG Chaignots (regular label) for $25. Also pretty tasty and steal at that price.

Don’t have much experience with DL but these two bottles reminded me of aged Meo.

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

@john stimson

Per Tanzer on his forum, the white labels are often wines that represent barrels that didn’t make the final cut. the VV wines are the ones to seek–I’m presuming these wine labels are not white.

The man has an interesting mind, in any event.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Tom Blach

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

The guy had amazing sources for most of his cuvees. He paid high prices to the vignerons to sell him specific barrels so he could transport and “raise” them in his cellar. He did himself no favors by bragging about “200% new oak” and other chararacteristics of his elevage, as many people dismissed him as a showman. A shame, as his sources were so good and what he was doing was not enough to ruin them, as many feared.

Of course, as a result of the hype, the cost of securing portions of winemakers’ most prestigious holdings, etc…his prices were often multiples of the same bottlings of those from whom he had purchased. Did he add that much value to his neigbhors’ , the Chevillons’ wines? I think not…nor to others. But…that was very different from making bad wines that were too stylized for their own good. I don’t think he really did that…though…he inartfully rode the line between hucksterism (ie, justifying a premium for his input) and the “truth” of what he mainly did…cherry pick great barrels by paying premium prices to the winemakers early enough to get those barrels.

I was always satisfied with Robert Chevillon’s versions…and those of Bernard Maume and others…they always seemed better values to me.

You’re right, Stuart, but at least on this side of the pond the wines fell so far out of favour that for a while they could be acquired extremely inexpensively at which point they were terrific value. Much confusion was caused by the use of new barrels but I think what people didn’t really understand was the low sulphur/high CO2 regime. What’s always impressed me particularly have been the stunning ‘little’ wines, including the best passetoutgrains of all, great Bourgogne, village old vine Savigny and Marsannay as well as grander village cuvees which can be a kind of quintessence. I will say that that my enthusiasm for these wines has raised eyebrows very high among the most informed burgundy lovers of my acquaintance.

Hi Tom…thanks for your comments re confusion caused by the use of new barrels…etc…etc.

Interesting. Girl with lipstick or no lipstick ?