Drinking Young Burg

[George_Chadwick]

@NoahR

As I Read through threads from"What Bottle Did You Open Tonight" to multiple baller dinner TNs, I see a lot of YOUNG red burg being opened. 2012 Chambertin, 2005-2010’s from high quality producers, etc, very few with a “I killed this baby in the name of science” caveat. I don’t judge wrong or right but it just seems, for lack of a better term, surprising, given the investment.

Just wondering thoughts. Is this like drinking young bordeaux in barrel or Barolo when the wall of tannins kicks you in the face and all you can hear in your ears is the ringing sound of Bill Klapp laughing? Or is it somehow different?

I haven’t read any of the other responses yet, sorry. IMO it’s worse than young Bordeaux barrel samples because not only is the tannin patent, the fruit is usually hiding unless it’s a really ripe vintage. Astringent and thin and not very aromatic. My experience is, it’s not even informative, especially 2005 and 2010.

[A_Shegedyn]

Not sure about the venom here about advice to let Grand Crus age. I think if you ever did a vertical tasting of different vintages going back to let’s say the 80s, you would see what you are missing. I had the pleasure of having Jadot’s Ursules and Vougeot in that format at one of Kevin Zraly’s events and it really brings things into perspective. I guess trying to help people appreciate the additional complexity and grace of aged wines is somehow forcing a point of view on others. Oh well.

[Sanjay_Nandurkar]

Many who have very deep cellars have the option of drinking only aged wines if they so choose. However, my friends in that category also indulge in young Burgundies.

I like to drink Burgundies at varying stages of their development.

[paul_hanna]

Burgs (especially in some vintages) generally drink better young than almost any other wine, often for a year or two after release, and can have a vibrant sort of energy and a lovely sweet perfumed nuance to them that older wines don’t have.

The two single dumbest things you can do is buy a quantity of expensive wines, cellar them for 15-20 years only to finally open one and find out you don’t like it…

The other thing is to only have mature wines without having the experience of seeing them evolve and change over time. Kind of like having a baby then not having anything to do with until it is 21 years old…the journey from start to finish is all a part of the experience.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

There is much pleasure to be had from young red Burgundy, from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is much pleasure to be had from aged red Burgundy from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is much frustration to be had from middle aged, shut down red Burgundy, from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is no formula to determine when a red Burgundy will be shut down, you simply have to pull the cork and check and that can frustrate a hell of a lot of people.

[Howard_Cooper]

@NoahR

@Travis Scott

Drink grand cru Burgundy young, you’re not getting everything you paid for, you’re not learning much if anything about how the wines will compare later on, but at least your tongue won’t weep blood like it does when you drink Barolo young.

No reason to paint on motives such as “condescending,” “worrying,” “dictating,” etc. It’s a fact about a category of wine. No one’s feelings are at stake here. Not even calling anyone’s ugly dog an ugly dog.

If you buy a house on the Amalfi coast and only stay there in February, you’re not getting everything you paid for. Moreover, you’re not getting the thing that has been the primary driver of the real estate market you paid into. Doesn’t mean you’re stupid or wasteful for buying the house, or that you didn’t truly enjoy your stay there in the winter — maybe even more than you would have enjoyed it in July or August. But neither does it change the fact that you’re not getting everything you paid for, and that your comparative experience of Ravello, Praiano, and Positano, in the winter, gives you little or no insight into what those communities will be like in the summer, or how they’ll compare at that time.

This is all fine. Constantly trying to maximize the value of everything you pay for ≠ happiness.

Well said.

I have no horse in this race. As the OP, I brought up the issue because I had been hearing very different things and, as someone fairly new to collecting, I have a stake in trying to get the best out of what I may buy. I look for wisdom here. And would rather read 50 pages of spirited blather here than a year’s worth of Wine Spectator.

Noah, it is nice to drink wines at their prime (good luck finding it) and it is nice to have wines to drink. So, buy a mixture. Get some vintages like 2005 and 2010 to age and like 2000 and 2007 to drink. Get some Marsannay, some Monthelie, some Santenay along with the bigger boys.

Also, do YOU like wines young, at 10 years old, at 20, at 30? If you do not experiment, you will never find out.

[Gary_York]

Noah - You see the problems of asking a serious questions on a BB like this. You come here for answers and people really don’t want you to have them. At least all of them or any that differ from their viewpoint. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. If you look at the above Howard is already contradicting himself. It almost seems like he favors aging wine. And drinking wines beside the big names. And if you think about it that could almost be construed as “rules”. And that is the last thing we need is “rules” about wine. No it is anything goes. These fine gentleman no doubt would approve of a prime dry aged steak slathered with Ketchup. Lew is the worst kind of coward. Far worse than the guy that buys all of his wine at Trader Joe’s or Total for $7.99 and is firmly convinced that no better wine can be had for any amount of money. He doesn’t know any better. Lew knows better and doesn’t have the courage to speak up and take a stand. Probably smiling all the time like some simpleton. And you have Zack with his + like some punk in high school that says “yeah” at the end of fight. An awesome display of intellect.

And what is even sadder is that after engaging these idiots I barely have the energy and desire to talk about your original question. So in that way they win by stifling conversation. Probably their intent in the first place.

[Craig_G]

@Craig G

@Craig G

@Craig G

WTF?

+1

+1

+1

[Mike_S]

I guess enjoyment is the issue. I can not tell anyone to like one taste more than another. I can only share my taste and maybe why I like that taste. What I learn from this board has added to my pleasure in wine. Maybe what I share will add to anothers pleasure. I am 76 years old and still learning about wine, more so about Burgundy.

[Robert_Pavlovich]

It’s amazing how much young Burgundy gets drunk at La Paulee every year. People seem to have a good time with it.

[Mike_Evans]

@A Shegedyn

Not sure about the venom here about advice to let Grand Crus age. I think if you ever did a vertical tasting of different vintages going back to let’s say the 80s, you would see what you are missing. I had the pleasure of having Jadot’s Ursules and Vougeot in that format at one of Kevin Zraly’s events and it really brings things into perspective. I guess trying to help people appreciate the additional complexity and grace of aged wines is somehow forcing a point of view on others. Oh well.

When one keeps saying the same thing over and over to the same person, it isn’t advice, it’s nagging.

And for all that is gained by aging Burgundy, there is something lost as well. A great young Burgundy can be electric, sizzling with energy and precision, and that gets lost with age.

[Lewis_Dawson]

@Gary York

Noah - You see the problems of asking a serious questions on a BB like this. You come here for answers and people really don’t want you to have them. At least all of them or any that differ from their viewpoint. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. If you look at the above Howard is already contradicting himself. It almost seems like he favors aging wine. And drinking wines beside the big names. And if you think about it that could almost be construed as “rules”. And that is the last thing we need is “rules” about wine. No it is anything goes. These fine gentleman no doubt would approve of a prime dry aged steak slathered with Ketchup. Lew is the worst kind of coward. Far worse than the guy that buys all of his wine at Trader Joe’s or Total for $7.99 and is firmly convinced that no better wine can be had for any amount of money. He doesn’t know any better. Lew knows better and doesn’t have the courage to speak up and take a stand. Probably smiling all the time like some simpleton. And you have Zack with his + like some punk in high school that says “yeah” at the end of fight. An awesome display of intellect.

And what is even sadder is that after engaging these idiots I barely have the energy and desire to talk about your original question. So in that way they win by stifling conversation. Probably their intent in the first place.

Gary, thank you for your gratuitous insults…

In my post upthread, I described my typical pattern of opening one bottle of a wine I’ve bought in some quantity above 2 or 3 blts. And I gave three or four reasons why I do that. This was directly in response to Noah’s query. If by “take a stand” you mean I should insist my way is the only right way, and those who do differently are stupid or something, well life is not that simple. Noah has to draw his own conclusions from an array of opinions. If you can’t grasp that, then who is the simpleton here?

[Brady_Daniels]

@Robert Pavlovich

It’s amazing how much young Burgundy gets drunk at La Paulee every year. People seem to have a good time with it.

So how exactly does La Paulee disprove Gary’s (implicit) argument that drinking expensive Grands Crus young is conspicuous consumption?

[Ian_Dorin]

@Brady Daniels

@Robert Pavlovich

It’s amazing how much young Burgundy gets drunk at La Paulee every year. People seem to have a good time with it.

So how exactly does La Paulee disprove Gary’s (implicit) argument that drinking expensive Grands Crus young is conspicuous consumption?

The current vintage tasting at La Paulee is incredibly helpful for those that go, as it gives them a snap shot of what is truly going on.
I recall at the 2010 La Paulee tasting, people were really buzzing about 2008, and how far the wines had come. Liger Belair and Mugneret Gibourg stole the show. The wines were stunning. So much for infanticide on wines that will no doubt last 20+ years…

@George Chadwick

I haven’t read any of the other responses yet, sorry. IMO it’s worse than young Bordeaux barrel samples because not only is the tannin patent, the fruit is usually hiding unless it’s a really ripe vintage. Astringent and thin and not very aromatic. My experience is, it’s not even informative, especially 2005 and 2010.

Are you talking about young red burg? or Bordeaux?

[maureen_nelson]

@Brady Daniels

@Robert Pavlovich

It’s amazing how much young Burgundy gets drunk at La Paulee every year. People seem to have a good time with it.

So how exactly does La Paulee disprove Gary’s (implicit) argument that drinking expensive Grands Crus young is conspicuous consumption?

Well, La Paulee is the burgundy vignerons’ own celebration of their wine and i really don’t think it accurate or appropriate to characterize the decision of Christophe Roumier (for example) to open a young Amoureuses (or BM) from his own efforts and cellar as engaging in conspicuous consumption.

[maureen_nelson]

And besides - what if the young grand cru is consumed at home and news or notes is not posted on this board is it conspicuous consumption?

I don’t doubt that there is “conspicuous consumption” of valuable wine - and this board (among others) provides the venue for making such consumption conspicuous. But i disagree with the notion that consuming a grand cru young - and even posting about it on this board - is conspicuous consumption.

[Ian_Dorin]

@maureen nelson

I don’t doubt that there is “conspicuous consumption” of valuable wine - and this board (among others) provides the venue for making such consumption conspicuous.

This has become my life, that’s for sure. Most of that is driven around not having much time lately to post lengthy tasting notes.

[A_Songeur]

I needed to google this to understand the meaning

“Conspicuous consumption is the spending of money on and the acquiring of luxury goods and services to publicly display economic power”

Gosh! … I remember our first visit to Grivot in April 2005 and Isabelle telling me while tasting Clos de Vougeot 2002 “This is one of the best wines I ever had”. As this is the first time I post on this epiphany moment for my best part, I have to assume that this was not conspicuous consumption…In fact, we had never heard the name of Grivot and 2 Belgians we met on the place du village chatted with us and as we were getting on asked us if we would be interested to come with them as they had an appointment to taste with Etienne. We then got married 3 months later (my 2nd wedding, I am over 60) and bought every year until 2012 vintage when prices became really unaffordable.
And I can tell you, this wine was much better (to us) than all the villages and 1er cru we tasted this day. This being said, no problem with ageing wines… even Bourgogne rouge

[k_s_h_i_n]

For $20, you can feed steak for a family. For 99% Americans, drinking a $50 bottle of wine is a crazy idea. I also love Burgundies at peak but the young ones also give you immense pleasure.

[Jay_Miller]

@Jeremy Holmes

There is much pleasure to be had from young red Burgundy, from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is much pleasure to be had from aged red Burgundy from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is much frustration to be had from middle aged, shut down red Burgundy, from Bourgogne-Grand Cru. There is no formula to determine when a red Burgundy will be shut down, you simply have to pull the cork and check and that can frustrate a hell of a lot of people.