Extremely expensive wines

[jason_stein]

For me, this is not about how much I can afford. I can afford to drink DRC but I don’t (however, if you want to serve it I will gladly drink it). We love our wine, but at the end of the day it is a beverage. I will say that again…it is a beverage. So, my personal limit before it becomes absurd is $400, although I still feel like a bit of a jerk somehow for spending that much on a bottle of wine. A question that helps to determine that $400 limit for me is: “How much better is a good Petrus than a good Chateau Pavie?” Is is six times better?

This is where I think the conversation gets interesting. For me wine is so much more - if that weren’t the case there would be no reason to spend more than $5 on a bottle. Wine is an experience - how it looks in the glass, how it smells, how it tastes - the impression it leaves with you; the history of the bottle, understanding its origins; creating a shared experience with others. It’s a sensory, intellectual and social pleasure, and to reduce it down to “it is a beverage” misses the point of the passion entirely.

[A_Songeur]

…

[alan_weinberg]

same as a meal. Some would think Olive Garden expensive while others would find French Laundry a bargain. Depends on where one is standing financially and their priorities. My wife and I share all assets yet she cringes at expensive wine cost, though happily drinks them.

[Glenn_P]

For me, this is not about how much I can afford. I can afford to drink DRC but I don’t (however, if you want to serve it I will gladly drink it). We love our wine, but at the end of the day it is a beverage. I will say that again…it is a beverage. So, my personal limit before it becomes absurd is $400, although I still feel like a bit of a jerk somehow for spending that much on a bottle of wine. A question that helps to determine that $400 limit for me is: “How much better is a good Petrus than a good Chateau Pavie?” Is is six times better?

This is where I think the conversation gets interesting. For me wine is so much more - if that weren’t the case there would be no reason to spend more than $5 on a bottle. Wine is an experience - how it looks in the glass, how it smells, how it tastes - the impression it leaves with you; the history of the bottle, understanding its origins; creating a shared experience with others. It’s a sensory, intellectual and social pleasure, and to reduce it down to “it is a beverage” misses the point of the passion entirely.

I can’t disagree with this. So there is a little devil on my left shoulder saying “Wine is just a beverage…don’t spend more than $400 on a bottle” and there is a little angel on my right shoulder saying “It isn’t about the bottle knucklehead…wine can be a priceless shared experience so the price is irrelevant…buy that Petrus!”

[PeterH]

At what price point does purchasing a bottle of wine for consumption become absurd?

If more than 2% of annual income, or 1% of net wealth.

That’s as much as I spend on all wine in a year. I guess I’m not much of Berserker.

[JBrochu]

same as a meal. Some would think Olive Garden expensive while others would find French Laundry a bargain. Depends on where one is standing financially and their priorities. My wife and I share all assets yet she cringes at expensive wine cost, though happily drinks them.

My wife happily drinks them as well, and has developed a taste for Champagne and Burgundies, but she says she doesn’t want to know what they cost or what our annual wine budget is.

[S_Stevenson]

I think the point is one of diminishing returns. A $75 bottle can often be as good/better than a $300 bottle. That’s when purchasing that said $300 bottle becomes absurd.
That test works across all price points. The trick is finding that particular $75 bottle.

[Mark_Golodetz]

For me, this is not about how much I can afford. I can afford to drink DRC but I don’t (however, if you want to serve it I will gladly drink it). We love our wine, but at the end of the day it is a beverage. I will say that again…it is a beverage. So, my personal limit before it becomes absurd is $400, although I still feel like a bit of a jerk somehow for spending that much on a bottle of wine. A question that helps to determine that $400 limit for me is: “How much better is a good Petrus than a good Chateau Pavie?” Is is six times better?

Yes

For my palate, I wouldn’t want to trade Pavie bottle for bottle for Corbin value $40. But for many who like the Pavie style, it is better than Petrus.

If I am looking at value realistically, let’s play the substitution game. For Right Bank Bordeaux for example, and the best bang for my buck.

Current vintages

Le Pin $3000 Petrus $3000

Substitute Lafleur $1250.

Lafleur $1250
Substitute Cheval Blanc $600

Cheval Blanc $600
Substitute VCC $280 and/or Trotanoy $250


After this it gets a little harder. While for me, all the above wines are of similar quality even if there are huge price differences, the VCC represents the sweet spot in Bordeaux. A case of VCC for a bottle of Petrus. No brainer if you are planning on drinking the wine, as much of that difference is about rarity and availability. I am still not sure what rarity tastes like.

Best alternatives are

Canon $140
Old vintages of Magdelaine $100 plus
Corbin $40

[Alex_Valdes]

I think the point is one of diminishing returns. A $75 bottle can often be as good/better than a $300 bottle. That’s when purchasing that said $300 bottle becomes absurd.
That test works across all price points. The trick is finding that particular $75 bottle.

How are you measuring diminishing returns? And, even if they are diminishing, what is the value of the marginal return? Is it the same, higher or lower than at different parts of the return curve?

Do you and others who say this, actually believe this or is it more like “I feel comfortable at price $x (which is actually somewhat arbitrary).” These posts read pretty scientific / precise and I am curious if you really give it that much thought.

For me, it’s pretty simple: I know I (and most humans) are terrible at making relative choices, I know I can’t really quantify the differences, and I know I really value experiences. So I maximize for the best experience I can within some rough gearing of my life expenses. Within that I will buy really cheap, really expensive (within some max annual budget) and all in between searching for what feels best. I think I’ve mostly figured out what that is for me given my preferences but it’s trial and error and I don’t squint at any bottle price too hard - I just try to put together good experiences.

[Jeff_Wiltse]

As others have stated, the answer is clearly relative to the individual. I have been able to buy so much excellent wine over the past five years in the $40 to $70 range (Produttori Riservas, Vajra Bricco delle Viole, Il Poggione, Grand Puy Lacoste, Leoville Barton, Arterberry Maresh Maresh Vineyard, Goodfellow Heritage wines, etc.) that I am rarely tempted to pay more for a bottle of wine. These may not quite reach the highs of far more expensive wines, but, in my experience, they get pretty close and can be just as distinctive and interesting. Besides, my wife is not a wine drinker and looks skeptically at expensive wine purchases.

[Max_S1]

98% of the wine I buy is under $50 per bottle. Probably 90% is under $30. If my income doubled, those numbers would probably double and then escalate from there. There is a lot of incredible wine in the under $30 and under $50 ranges that I don’t think it makes any sense to me to buy anything more expensive, with a few notable exceptions (Champagne, Barolo, WV Pinot).

[Albert_R]

same as a meal. Some would think Olive Garden expensive while others would find French Laundry a bargain. Depends on where one is standing financially and their priorities. My wife and I share all assets yet she cringes at expensive wine cost, though happily drinks them.

+1. My wife loves to drink good juice but does not want to know what we paid for it!

[Anton_D]

Above 90 gives me mild existential angst.

My adrenal glands start quivering at 175 and my butt clenches at 220.

225 gives me a definite sensation of foreboding of my demise.

Above that, I am afraid to touch a bottle for fear of fainting and dropping it.

I think Spottswoode is the priciest treat we buy, maybe Pointe Rouge?

[Zachary_Mancini]

Above 90 gives me mild existential angst.

My adrenal glands start quivering at 175 and my butt clenches at 220.

225 gives me a definite sensation of foreboding of my demise.

Above that, I am afraid to touch a bottle for fear of fainting and dropping it.

I think Spottswoode is the priciest treat we buy, maybe Pointe Rouge?

Jeez that’s extreme… But granted I’m single so I can buy wine that’s more expensive without worrying about a family to take care of.

[G_Curd]

Above 90 gives me mild existential angst.

My adrenal glands start quivering at 175 and my butt clenches at 220.

225 gives me a definite sensation of foreboding of my demise.

Above that, I am afraid to touch a bottle for fear of fainting and dropping it.

I think Spottswoode is the priciest treat we buy, maybe Pointe Rouge?

I love this.

I had this long winded page long discussion of the wine experience as a whole, but this is just so much better.

[Tom_R_W]

I’ve found the following to be true on hobby boards-

Every item in my collection is worth it and justified, as well as any of similar value owned by anyone else. Anything priced higher than my most expensive item is over-priced, not worth it, and it’s owner quite possibly insane.

[Andrew_K]

Value is in the eye of the drinker. I have different price to value structures for different producers and wines.

[John_Ammons]

I think Spottswoode is the priciest treat we buy, maybe Pointe Rouge?

As in Peter Michael? Careful there, you’re giving me post pandemic ideas about what to suggest we drink when I unveil to you my new analog treats.

[John_Ammons]

For me, this is not about how much I can afford. I can afford to drink DRC but I don’t (however, if you want to serve it I will gladly drink it). We love our wine, but at the end of the day it is a beverage. I will say that again…it is a beverage. So, my personal limit before it becomes absurd is $400, although I still feel like a bit of a jerk somehow for spending that much on a bottle of wine. A question that helps to determine that $400 limit for me is: “How much better is a good Petrus than a good Chateau Pavie?” Is is six times better?

Yes

Perhaps, but can one 93 point wine be 6 times better than another 93 point wine?

[Neal.Mollen]

I’m always amused by threads where people post about how they could be drinking DRC if they wanted to, but of course, they consider it highly wasteful and would just never.

I don’t see the humor. Can you explain?