Few ways to answer this…
first - yes there is a lot of surplus wine, especially given the incredible yields of 2018 and 2019 (in CA). Also there’s been a LOT of vineyard planting over the past decade or so. Sometimes the surplus means barrels and barrels of wine; other times it means wine that’s been put in bottles already, but unlabeled and waiting for a home, aka “shiners”
second - recent trends/pandemics aside, the wine market is just very inefficient. Supply can vary tremendously based on yield, blending decisions, vineyard plantings, and is determined years before the product is ready to hit the market. Demand, on the other hand, is relatively fixed, especially for higher end wine and wineries who like to remain exclusive and sell through specific channels (allocation lists, restaurants, etc.)
third - our models are similar, but not identical. We operate on a much smaller scale, 3-5 barrels at a time, because we think this is where there’s both value (with bigger lots, brokers for bulk wine often get involved) and quality (more control, likely these barrels were truly intended for bottling by the original producer as opposed to “scraps”). And we target wine that’s $100-200 and sell for ~$30-50, rather than wine that’s $50 and sell for $15.
Happy to explain more via DM - I’m wary of turning this into an ad for the company I’m working for, but obviously happy to talk more about it. Will soon have an official intro/offer to the broader Wine berserkers community though!
So interesting! Thank you very much for the education/detailed response. Will be very curious to see your offer to the WB community.
And just to confirm - Would you say the main differences between your company and de Negoce are price point (yours being higher end wine) and overall quality of the juice (theirs being scraps/leftovers and yours being intended for bottle)?
Definitely not here to disparage de Negoce - I have no doubt they’re able to source some very high quality, non-scrap wine. I’m looking forward to trying some soon! The target wine we go after is probably different, given the price point difference and scale (we’re much smaller and aim to get 3-5 barrels at a time). I also think Cameron goes after futures, something that’s less central to our model. Really smart/great for his cash flow perspective since he can secure orders ahead of bottling and creates value for consumers. Also potentially why there’s the case minimum though? (just guessing, don’t want to speak for him!)
Few ways to answer this…
first - yes there is a lot of surplus wine, especially given the incredible yields of 2018 and 2019 (in CA). Also there’s been a LOT of vineyard planting over the past decade or so. Sometimes the surplus means barrels and barrels of wine; other times it means wine that’s been put in bottles already, but unlabeled and waiting for a home, aka “shiners”
second - recent trends/pandemics aside, the wine market is just very inefficient. Supply can vary tremendously based on yield, blending decisions, vineyard plantings, and is determined years before the product is ready to hit the market. Demand, on the other hand, is relatively fixed, especially for higher end wine and wineries who like to remain exclusive and sell through specific channels (allocation lists, restaurants, etc.)
third - our models are similar, but not identical. We operate on a much smaller scale, 3-5 barrels at a time, because we think this is where there’s both value (with bigger lots, brokers for bulk wine often get involved) and quality (more control, likely these barrels were truly intended for bottling by the original producer as opposed to “scraps”). And we target wine that’s $100-200 and sell for ~$30-50, rather than wine that’s $50 and sell for $15.
Happy to explain more via DM - I’m wary of turning this into an ad for the company I’m working for, but obviously happy to talk more about it. Will soon have an official intro/offer to the broader Wine berserkers community though!
So interesting! Thank you very much for the education/detailed response. Will be very curious to see your offer to the WB community.
And just to confirm - Would you say the main differences between your company and de Negoce are price point (yours being higher end wine) and overall quality of the juice (theirs being scraps/leftovers and yours being intended for bottle)?
Definitely not here to disparage de Negoce - I have no doubt they’re able to source some very high quality, non-scrap wine. I’m looking forward to trying some soon! The target wine we go after is probably different, given the price point difference and scale (we’re much smaller and aim to get 3-5 barrels at a time). I also think Cameron goes after futures, something that’s less central to our model. Really smart/great for his cash flow perspective since he can secure orders ahead of bottling and creates value for consumers. Also potentially why there’s the case minimum though? (just guessing, don’t want to speak for him!)
Yep, gotcha! Appreciate the context! I’ll definitely keep an eye on your site and for any offers you send the WB community.