French winemakers hijack Spanish wine tankers on motorway

WINE TALK
21

I don’t care how you try and justify it. Those guys committed a crime. How would you like it if I dumped all your wine out (if you owned a winery)?

22

Not trying to justify anything, since I don’t agree with their action. Just giving a perspective which may or may not be enough for you to understand or agree. Sure it’s a crime as per law, but how would you feel if you were going bankrupt and no lawful action can do anything for you?

Also, I’m not too worried about any Spanish farmer losing any revenue over this one.

Alain

23

Wow Alain, that a brazen comment.

French and Italian wineries have been vandalized numerous times in recent years, resulting in losses of whole vintages.
I’m with Andy on this one, these guys need to be prosecuted.

24

This was a ridiculous statement on many levels.

25

Maybe it’s time to take a long hard look at your business model if that’s the case, or more likely you need to be in a different line of work. It’s a global economy now, and if you can’t survive in a free market then maybe you deserve to go out of business.

26

^ But it’s not a free market since it is subsidized, that’s the whole point!

Sorry my comment was not clear. What I’m saying is I’m sure these guys will be compensated by the same government that subsidized them.

Alain

27

Care to list all those levels?

Alain

28

Anyway, all these bulk wines (coming from where exactly? the analysis will say?) poured on the tarmac is plonk so this was actually good news for the consumer… and I believe nobody on this thread would like to drink this stuff. The producer/transporter will get compensation. (40€/hl is 0.3 € per bottle! Can’t be from DRC, Rioja or Ribera del Duero… probably initially 100 hl/Ha, 18 degree alcohol diluted with adding half as much water to bring it down to 12 degrees… [cheers.gif]… actually not sure water is cheap enough… untreated water probably )

Information and analysis are essential. Wine should be labelled : provenance, …

Competition without information on the product is not level playing competition (for wine or anything else) as my buds can’t analyse what is in the drink and free trade without level playing field is a way to hell.

I have stopped drinking beer altogether until the content of Glyphosate is analysed and publicised/put on the label.

Moreover, health management is important and I want to be able to choose to drink or not drink alcohol (my freedom) but I am now denied to choose to drink beer without glyphosate despite the (not fully understood) risks of rare (hence not very curable) forms of cancer… and other risks.

France and Languedoc have chosen to go for quality wines (does not mean there is no plonk, of course! There is plenty! But they try), the consumer has a right to know what he drinks. Market needs regulation to protect quality ( I mean, you want to be sure your Rolex is made of gold [highfive.gif] … and you know your Mercedes is a Mercedes)

29

As others have said. This isn’t a brand of wine or even a wine from a recognised region. This is the bulk wine that the workers of Europe drink everyday without knowing what it is. It is the “pichet de vin rouge” that comes free with the 12€ “formule du jour” in thousands of workers cafés, supermarket food halls and chain restaurant across the country. The competition is just to see who can make a barely drinkable wine at the lowest price. If you get government subsidies, lower minimum wages, less regulations and less traceabilty you would obviously be able to do that more easily.

I was trying to give some context to the story. I don’t condone the actions and am actually quite angry that the president of the union of vignerons to which I have to belong was taking part in the action and throwing accusations around. But these people are not winemakers in the way you would think of them in the States. They are growers who belong to cooperatives. They are like the dairy farmers who supply milk to make cheap cheese, not the people who appear on the pages of Wine Spectator.

Many of us “Vignerons Independants” in the region have been working hard to throw off the mantle of cheap plonk that veils our efforts to make much more interesting wines. This kind of childish vandalism throws years of that work in the bin. I’m already reading comments on wine forums saying people should boycott all Southern French wine. All it does is put people’s backs up. I think the Spanish PM is quite right to call the French ambassador in to answer for it.

30

Firstly, I think their actions are childish and should be punished. I was just trying to give context, partly to avoid the big tar brush that I see coming to paint all of the independent producers in the region who make their own wines under their own labels.

It’s not about your Napa winery versus my Roussillon winery. We, hypothetically, are two independent wineries promoting our brand. These guys vandalising trucks are not. Imagine if Gallo started importing government subsidised, less regulated wine from Mexico at half the price of anything that could be produced in America and putting it in bottles that make it look just like CAli wine. I’m sure the Californian grape suppliers would get angry about it because it’s not fair competition. That’s all I’m saying.

31

I would feel like a victim of the world with no control over my own life, all of which would be pure delusion. This is a ridiculous justification of a terrible, immoral act.

32

Are you sure? How so?
It’s my hope that the French government is made to cover the losses and that the idiots who carried out the attack have to be personally liable for their vandalism.

Alain, do you know anything at all about Spanish viticulture / agriculture? Like how many kg/ hectare is produced in comparison to France? What about the Spanish agricultural unemployment? Show me the proof that the EU subsidy only applies to Spain and not to France.


Your statements have no founding and no base. All you are saying is what you IMAGINE to be the truth. You don’t know the vineyards from where this wine came from and you most certainly don’t know other regions of Spain producing excellent wines apart from the two you mentioned, yet you have taken a nationalistic, superiority attitude that everything outside of Spain’s, Rioja or Ribera del Duero and France is plonk. How Napoleonic. You recall the Napoleon prisoner swap with the Spanish right?

This thread is about a crime that was committed and you chosen to side with criminals in support of what they did. If you don’t like the laws in the EU allowing FREE TRADE between the EU countries than that’s something you need to deal with. The infuriated French winemakers in Languedoc-Roussillon need to go to the buyers and figure it out with trade contracts, not by vandalizing and hijacking the truckers. If you don’t like the subsidizes that EU member vineyards get then use your voting power and elect someone to represent the poor French vineyards. The laws in the EU are so convoluted and difficult to decipher to begin with…it is all too easy to blame it on the Spaniards.

Be that as it is this is a FRENCH problem and has been for years. It doesn’t matter if it is with wine, tomatoes, strawberries, or any other produce made in Spain. Here is the ruling showing the French Republic negligence in preventing these attacks there by preventing free trade.

THE COURT

hereby:

  1. Declares that, by failing to adopt all necessary and proportionate measures in order to prevent the free movement of fruit and vegetables from being obstructed by actions by private individuals, the French Republic has failed to fulfil its obligations under Article 30 of the EC Treaty, in conjunction with Article 5 of that Treaty, and under the common organizations of the markets in agricultural products;

  2. Orders the French Republic to pay the costs;

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A61995CJ0265

Jon you are not competing with these wines really are you? I mean your wines are so far above cheap bar wine. Just because it is a coop doesn’t mean it’s bad wine. Unless you have intimate knowledge of the wines destroyed then it is just speculation on how “bad” it really is. French winemakers need to go to the BUYER and demand their business.
In the US we have that already and don’t have to go to Mexico for the juice, ever tried Apothic Red or White? TwoBuck Chuck? There is lots of really massivly made wines out there, where ever you go.
You are absolutely right though about tainting the reputation of your region. I would love to meet sometime and share a copa or two!

33

@ Doug: Then maybe you would need to talk to these guys and hear their side of the story.

Again I’m not justifying anything since I don’t think this is the right way to do it. But knowing how the establishment works in France, I can understand their frustration. Sure, “go find another job if you’re not happy” and all that, we’ll see where it lands us… I’m hearing it has not turned out that great for the US middle class these last few decades…

@ Nola:

Are you sure? How so?
It’s my hope that the French government is made to cover the losses and that the idiots who carried out the attack have to be personally liable for their vandalism. => Whether it is the Spanish or French government will not change much I’m afraid, this will be taken to EU courts and settled with EU money.
Part of me totally agrees that these guys should face sanctions for their actions, but I also think that if I were face to face with one of them, telling me that he has a 30 years loan on his back and can barerly put food on the table for his family, then I might change my mind.
Still, it is not a good showing and definitely not a great way to escalate the issue.

Alain, do you know anything at all about Spanish viticulture / agriculture? => A bit… I follow the wine-related news on another wine forum so I read the periodic stuff about Spain. I also happen to like Spain a lot and would be interested in working there, so I follow the news on the economy etc. Still, I’m no expert by any mean, that’s for sure.
Like how many kg/ hectare is produced in comparison to France? => You mean broadly speaking? Overall I believe it is higher, but we would have to compare in a given price range, type of wine or something.
What about the Spanish agricultural unemployment? => Don’t know about that, but I’m guessing that it’s not good, possible even worse than the other industries?
Show me the proof that the EU subsidy only applies to Spain and not to France. => For wine? Would have to look obviously. For the rest of agriculture, there’s no question both countries are heavily subsidized. I mean, it’s crazy how it seems we’re making everything possible to decimate the small farmers. Anyway, that’s a topic for another day…

Alain

34

Potentially an incendiary topic, so treading with caution…

  • The perpetrators are criminals, and we all seem to agree in this.
  • It is disappointing that the French police do nothing. Shame on them for failing to do the job they are paid to do - upholding the law. They have a poor reputation in such incidents, including when live sheep were killed by farmers setting light to a vehicle.
  • The EU could remove the ‘passing off’ accusation, if they implement a law where all wine served in the EU must clearly state it’s country of origin (or IGP/DOP as appropriate) at point of sale. Currently every food/drink must be traceable back to source, so the hard work has been done. Then if Spanish wine really is worse wrt pesticides than the equivalent French wine, then it is up to the French to trumpet their credentials - or lobby the EU to tighten the legislation.
  • Free and fair trade is something of a red herring. Trade agreements and agreed EU subsidies are not there to satisfy the ideology of free and fair trade. They are commercial negotiations between countries, and sometime result in anti-competitive situations. (e.g. Germany being allowed to use the name Weissburgunder, despite the rest of the world (except Bourgogne) being unable to use the name Bourgogne and local equivalents). In order to improve the situation, they’ll have to give ground elsewhere.

Jonathan
Is there a risk that the involvement of the president of the union of vignerons, could result in a civil action against the organisation and it’s members?

regards
Ian

35

Nola, you can look on the relevant websites to see which countries include viticulture under their subsidised agriculture. I did and Spain and Italy do but France doesn’t. We can only claim subsidies for investments and for marketing initiatives outside the EU. France has used millions of EU money to promote its wines in China for example. IMO that’s a better long-term plan than subsidising every hectare under vine to enable the cheapest wine to be even cheaper - although it works for those producers and for the French negociants who are buying and reselling it.

Ian, I don’t think that the Syndicat could be prosecuted. If the leader of a union takes it upon himself to join in a criminal activity, the union members cannot be held responsible unless they had specifically voted for the activity. I’m actually thinking of pulling out of the syndicate but that would mean having to label all my wine as Vin de France - the same label that competes with the cheap Pichet! Every AOP and IGP in France has to pay to their regional syndicate.

Earlier tonight I wrote a short post on a French bloggers facebook thread which condemmed the president of the syndicate for the malice he has caused or supported. My wife made me tke it of immediately for fear that we would be targeted by the more militant members of the angry cooperateurs for voicing dissent. I think that is something hard to imagine in the New World where all wines are made by independent companies. Here in Europe many winegrowers are effectively working for the state.

36

Jon, in your situation, I would agree with your wife. These bastards are not just targeting Spanish wines. They are criminals that think their way is the only way. I get it that there are disparities and unfair practices. But continually doing these acts of vandalism will not do anything except put the area in a bad light globally. I read the other article about how the same militant group is threatening to block the Tour de France because of a deal with Chilean wines.
So, that’s where the French government needs to step up and protect and prosecute the perpetrators.

Regarding the agricultural subsidies, to my knowledge, we don’t personally get any subsidies for our vineyards. I’ll look to see if I can find the websites to which you’re referring. Perhaps, this is something for bigger enterprises rather than small wineries/vineyards. We do have access and use the EU subsidies for opening new markets like China, US and S America.

37

Ha! I am not even allowed to know what kind of grapes go into a French wine because they are not supposed to put the identity of the grapes on the labels. In Alsace, if they put Chardonnay in the blend, it is illegal for them to tell me on the label what the vintage is. I don’t think the French wine industry, when coupled with applicable French laws, can be held up as an example of consumer friendly business practice.

I agree that if the Spanish government subsidizes Spanish grape growers while the French Government does not subsidize French grape growers (I don’t know whether it does or doesn’t), then the Spanish have an unfair advantage. However, that’s what you get in the EU. I’ve actually lost track of the EU bailouts. Was there a bailout of Spain? If so, may be no more subsidies should have been a condition of the bailout.

38

Nola,

My post did not mean to be very serious. I just wanted to diffuse a bit the situation.
Having associated DRC (Domaine de La Romanee Conti, the most prestigious French Domaine) with Rioja and Ribera del Duero in my post (and left open the list with dotted points, hence not excluding wines from Granada) cannot be associated with an attempt to rubbish Spanish wine and does not justify your “Napoleonic” outburst (I don’t feel responsible for Napoleon actions anyway).
Ref my imagination about the plonk, having carried out a due diligence on 2 wine properties in the past, I cannot believe anyone can produce some quality wine and sell it profitably for 40€/Hl i.e. 0.3€ per 75 cl unless it employs unpaid slaves, cut corners and does not have decent practices, but, sure, I have no information about the wine that was spoiled on the tarmac (at least, this reduced oversupply).
Of course, my “recipe” for producing cheap wine was a joke.
So, let’s put “our flags” aside and hope the wine industry manages to improve its profitabilty and avoid any more desperate actions. It will be better for everybody.
(I am sure French peasants don’t discriminate when they riot. It is part of their traditions and it is nothing personal against the Spanish. A lot of French elites can testify…)

39

Thanks for providing some balance to the story.

40

My apologies, I did not read humor or light into your post. I took it much more seriously given the ongoing and continuous problem with transporting goods into France from Spain. Thank you for setting the tone correctly. I apologize for my remark.