There are plenty of people who enjoy Caymus and plenty of other people who enjoy Sutter Home White Zin. My late grandmother was one of the latter. She was a wonderful, classy woman who happened to like semi-sweet, pink wine. The concept of this thread is disgusting and offensive to me.
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Iām referring to the NV - should have specified. To me, itās a $20 Champagne in a $50 package. Plenty of wines like that, but I think Veuve is one of the worst offenders.
These are all well-made wines that appeal to very broad consumer bases. I donāt think theyāre any indicator of bad taste, just different taste than people around here have. Iām glad so many people like wine, and Iām glad most of them donāt want the wines I love. Otherwise Iād have a lot of trouble getting the wines I love. I would (somewhat) happily drink a glass of any of these if someone served it to me or ordered it at a restaurant with me. I just wouldnāt go for a second glass. The rules of whatās āgoodā are arbitrary anyway. Theyāve just been accepted for so long that those of us who study wine as a hobby and/or a profession tend to learn to agree, therefore valuing things like complexity and ageability. I can love Jim Jarmusch movies and still find the Bourne franchise entertaining. People like what they like. If we had a much more limited wine market, I suspect that would be terrible for those of us who love a variety of artisanal wines. And there probably canāt be enough really interesting, well-made artisanal wines to satisfy the entire worldās demand (not even the entire US). Iām happy the mass market brands help so many importers, distributors, retailers, and even restaurants to ākeep the lights onā. Heck, they can even be a gateway to the good stuff!
Now, if you want to disparage terribly flawed natural wines, you can find many contentious threads on that to dig up and add to (probably too many Iāve posted in). ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
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And perhaps you are unaware that the Silver Oak winemaker is a respected member of this board? Would you get in his face and tell him his wines are garbage?
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Outside of the soda-replacements categories (Eg Meiomi, Caymus, White Zins, Yellow Tail), are what yāall are describing as garbage really that bad? Iāve actually gone out of my way over the last few years to taste a lot of these so called āgarbageā wines and often blindfolded so I couldnāt even see them:
Caymus - It still has me confused on why it is popular. I want to know how they got people to accept paying that much for these recent vintages. Wonāt refuse a glass of it if it was offered and paid for by someone else.
Rombauer Chardonnay - it is way better than a lot of the other butter bomb Napa chards out there. I could easily tolerate a glass or two as a cocktail replacement.
The Prisoner - Itās not too bad in the current iterations. I think it is decent but way overpriced and nothing dropping the price down to the 15-20 bottle range couldnāt fix. Much rather have it over Caymus. If I was at a steakhouse with a bad wine list, I would purchase this in a heart beat.
Sutter Home Cab/chard - Itās better than Yellow Tail but below Barefoot. You get what you pay for. Canāt speak to the white zin, my partner hasnāt picked a bottle of that one up and forced me to do a blindfolded tasting.
Silver Oak - Not my style but seems to be well made. I will drink it over modern day Caymus any day.
Veuve - Iāve never like their style and I find Yellow Label overpriced. But to each their own, at that price point Iāll be buying Bollinger.
I bet if you had a guest show up and said they liked any of the above, Meiomi excluded, Iād bet youād be able to find something in your cellar that would go over well with them.
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I have never had Meiomi, and havenāt had a Sutter Ome in decades, so canāt speak to them.
Silver Oak and Camus are just fine. Not something I prefer, but not in the same hemisphere as āgarbageā.
Canāt say Iām a fan of the little bit of Josh Iāve had, but I donāt remember recoiling in horror at it or anything.
Chateauneuf-du-Pape? Are you serious? Chateauneuf-du-Pape is a damn good AOC producing serious wines.
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Maybe you havenāt had it recently.
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You may be missing some context to understand the level of sarcasm in his post.
Oh, and
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+1 on Prisoner
Basic Moet has also improved I think.
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And vice versa.
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āJoshā is the pretext for ritual combat among the named, akin to Scot Highlander traditions
There is a secret sub clause: after drinking 1+ bottles of āJoshā, participants are allowed to battle, even if they do not have the official name.
Shades of the Hugh Johnson rating system lolā¦ (I love this one ā Two Sips: Faint interest - or disbelief ā)
I do think we take ourselves too seriously sometimes. I agree with pretty much all of this post.
Also: I donāt see how Silver Oak got lumped in with NV industrial stuff. My better half and her girlfriends had a very nice visit there (they are not oenophiles/elites) and even brought me back a bottle of Twomey PN. Not that I drink it beyond occasionally, but always been pleased with it: big, oaky, steak friendly.
What Merrill said.
And thereās a search function. Over the past decade or so there have been many threads disparaging this or that wine. In fact, probably half the wines on your list of faves are considered gross by someone else. And your list of āgarbageā - Sutter Home and Josh are cheap labels found in supermarkets. Caymus was once a drinkable wine but itās now a relatively expensive wine found in supermarkets. And since Meiomi is part of the family, you may as well list all of the family wines, unless you havenāt had them all.
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Hasnāt Meiomi been out of the family for some time?
Perhaps we can rename this thread topic to āMass produced wines vs Artisan wines.ā Theyāre all wine and in order to help boost sales and interest in smaller producers, you also want the big commercial wines to have success as well. Many wine hobbyists (aka WBers) started their wine journey by having a glass of Meiomi, Prisoner, Sutter Home, etc.
The scale and distribution of these brands has allowed more people to drink wine, which is always a positive.
McDonalds doesnāt make the best hamburgers, nor are they the most natural. However people still eat them because theyāre in every city, inexpensive, and are consistent. No one calls them garbage and theyāre not āflawed.ā
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Yes, it has. I believe the branding rights were the only thing that was sold, not the winemaking. So Meiomi post acquisition tastes very different than pre acquisition.