Garbage wines master list?

[TomHill]

I would not order a Sutter Home white zin for sure, but Trinchero has quite a wine collective and I would bet that there are a couple of member only wines that are pretty darn good.

At one time, SutterHome made a SH Triple Creme Apertif that was sensational…one of the best fortified dessert wine made in Calif.
It was an old Cream Sherry from stocks at EastSide Wnry in Lodi, afore EastSide was sold off, that was then flavored w/ spices
(like orris root, orange peel, nutmeg) that DarrellCorti recommended to BobTrinchero.
I see that they still make a Triple Cream Sherry, but I’ve never seen it to try.

The last time I visited the SutterHome tasting room in the mid-'80’s, the highlight was the SH Tomato Sauce. The pour guy wouldn’t
open one for me to taste, so I bought a jar, opened it on the spot, & tasted it. It was OK as tomato sauces go…nothing special.
But the pour guy wouldn’t give me a spoon to use, so I had to dip my finger into it to taste. I should have poured some into
my tasting glass & tasted it that way. That’d really have gotten his dander up!!

The first SutterHome White Zin was the '73, labeled Oeil de Perdrix at Darrell’s suggestion, made from DeaverVnyd Zin saignee juice.
It was actually a pretty good/spicy Blanc de Noir. But then in the mid-'70’s, they started leaving R.S. in the WhiteZin
and that was all she wrote.

So that’s my SutterHome story & I’m stickin’ to it!!
Tom

[Sam_Kwak]

Because somebody mentioned Kendall Jackson, and I have a story about that –

Many years ago, when I was barely of drinking age and super excited about getting to really explore the world of wines, I was having dinner with a friend whom I had known to be a wine drinker, and because I owed him a favor from another occasion, I brought along a bottle of Chablis 1er to go along with the sushi we were having. I asked my friend if he liked the wine, to which he replied: “Yes, it’s pretty good - almost as nice as Kendall Jackson Chardonnay!”

The reason I’m bringing up this anecdote, however, is not to dunk on my friend or KJ. I will admit that 22-year old me was mortally offended by this pronouncement and scoffed silently at him for the entire meal. If this happened to me now, I would have smiled and said, “Well, if I had known that’s what you liked, I would have brought that!” The vast majority of people who casually enjoy wine do derive pleasure from whatever just happens to be the most popular and accessible around them at the time (which may or may not be good and/or agree with my tastes), and if they don’t want to sink more money and time into learning what else is available, it’s not my place to force them to do otherwise. Life’s too short to get upset about this kind of thing. Besides, if the masses develop a taste for the same esoteric stuff you happen to like, you won’t be able to enjoy it for much longer because the price will skyrocket…

[Anton_D]

I would not order a Sutter Home white zin for sure, but Trinchero has quite a wine collective and I would bet that there are a couple of member only wines that are pretty darn good.

At one time, SutterHome made a SH Triple Creme Apertif that was sensational…one of the best fortified dessert wine made in Calif.
It was an old Cream Sherry from stocks at EastSide Wnry in Lodi, afore EastSide was sold off, that was then flavored w/ spices
(like orris root, orange peel, nutmeg) that DarrellCorti recommended to BobTrinchero.
I see that they still make a Triple Cream Sherry, but I’ve never seen it to try.

The last time I visited the SutterHome tasting room in the mid-'80’s, the highlight was the SH Tomato Sauce. The pour guy wouldn’t
open one for me to taste, so I bought a jar, opened it on the spot, & tasted it. It was OK as tomato sauces go…nothing special.
But the pour guy wouldn’t give me a spoon to use, so I had to dip my finger into it to taste. I should have poured some into
my tasting glass & tasted it that way. That’d really have gotten his dander up!!

The first SutterHome White Zin was the '73, labeled Oeil de Perdrix at Darrell’s suggestion, made from DeaverVnyd Zin saignee juice.
It was actually a pretty good/spicy Blanc de Noir. But then in the mid-'70’s, they started leaving R.S. in the WhiteZin
and that was all she wrote.

So that’s my SutterHome story & I’m stickin’ to it!!
Tom

The Sutter Home early 70s red zins were superlative.

I still keep some at the ready.

[Arv_R]

I have to wonder if people who lump together Silver Oak and Caymus have really tasted both. To me Caymus is a bizarre concoction that isn’t much like any wine I want to drink. It’s over-extracted, sweet and in the worst vintages, actually syrupy. Silver Oak can be criticized for the oak treatment but I’ve never had one I thought was sweet or over-extracted. In some vintages the issue was more likely to be lack of extraction, perhaps because they amped up their production.

I tasted the 2017 Silver Oak Alexander on Sunday and it didn’t seem overly oaky to me either. I wouldn’t rush out to buy it but I’d have no problem drinking it.

Rombauer Chardonnay surprised me on the upside. Based on all the bashing I expected it to be the Caymus of Chardonnay, but it was actually quite good. It is indeed oaky but other than that I thought it was pretty nicely balanced and not overtly sweet. Again it’s not something I’ll seek out but I wouldn’t turn down a glass.

I’ve gone back and forth on the basic Veuve. There was a long time when it was pretty mediocre, then it seemed to improve. Then I had a number of mediocre experiences again (probably 3-4 years ago). I haven’t tried it recently. There’s so much good smaller label Champagne in that price range, I’m just not very motivated to buy it.

As someone mentioned upthread, for some of these wines, I think the storage really matters. And some of the mass marketers don’t have the capacity/care to take care of wine, whether its $15 Meiomi or $65 Veuve.

My sister brought a totally shot VC rose to Christmas once, she’d picked it up at the grocery store (full price ugh!) and it was cooked. I think that happens a ton of times, and too many consumers don’t know it’s off/wrong. Would never happen with milk or eggs…

[TomHill]

I would not order a Sutter Home white zin for sure, but Trinchero has quite a wine collective and I would bet that there are a couple of member only wines that are pretty darn good.

At one time, SutterHome made a SH Triple Creme Apertif that was sensational…one of the best fortified dessert wine made in Calif.
It was an old Cream Sherry from stocks at EastSide Wnry in Lodi, afore EastSide was sold off, that was then flavored w/ spices
(like orris root, orange peel, nutmeg) that DarrellCorti recommended to BobTrinchero.
I see that they still make a Triple Cream Sherry, but I’ve never seen it to try.

The last time I visited the SutterHome tasting room in the mid-'80’s, the highlight was the SH Tomato Sauce. The pour guy wouldn’t
open one for me to taste, so I bought a jar, opened it on the spot, & tasted it. It was OK as tomato sauces go…nothing special.
But the pour guy wouldn’t give me a spoon to use, so I had to dip my finger into it to taste. I should have poured some into
my tasting glass & tasted it that way. That’d really have gotten his dander up!!

The first SutterHome White Zin was the '73, labeled Oeil de Perdrix at Darrell’s suggestion, made from DeaverVnyd Zin saignee juice.
It was actually a pretty good/spicy Blanc de Noir. But then in the mid-'70’s, they started leaving R.S. in the WhiteZin
and that was all she wrote.

So that’s my SutterHome story & I’m stickin’ to it!!
Tom

The Sutter Home early 70s red zins were superlative.

I still keep some at the ready.

Yup, Anton…the Sutter Home Zins from '68 thru about '76 were superb. But then they went into a drastic decline. And then Trinchero
bought out Montevina & drove it into the ground.
Tom

[Paul_Miller]

At one time, SutterHome made a SH Triple Creme Apertif that was sensational…one of the best fortified dessert wine made in Calif.
It was an old Cream Sherry from stocks at EastSide Wnry in Lodi, afore EastSide was sold off, that was then flavored w/ spices
(like orris root, orange peel, nutmeg) that DarrellCorti recommended to BobTrinchero.
I see that they still make a Triple Cream Sherry, but I’ve never seen it to try.

The last time I visited the SutterHome tasting room in the mid-'80’s, the highlight was the SH Tomato Sauce. The pour guy wouldn’t
open one for me to taste, so I bought a jar, opened it on the spot, & tasted it. It was OK as tomato sauces go…nothing special.
But the pour guy wouldn’t give me a spoon to use, so I had to dip my finger into it to taste. I should have poured some into
my tasting glass & tasted it that way. That’d really have gotten his dander up!!

The first SutterHome White Zin was the '73, labeled Oeil de Perdrix at Darrell’s suggestion, made from DeaverVnyd Zin saignee juice.
It was actually a pretty good/spicy Blanc de Noir. But then in the mid-'70’s, they started leaving R.S. in the WhiteZin
and that was all she wrote.

So that’s my SutterHome story & I’m stickin’ to it!!
Tom

The Sutter Home early 70s red zins were superlative.

I still keep some at the ready.

Yup, Anton…the Sutter Home Zins from '68 thru about '76 were superb. But then they went into a drastic decline. And then Trinchero
bought out Montevina & drove it into the ground.
Tom

https://twitter.com/voxinferior/status/1516504451393142796?s=20&t=uNctkRyuaSFySwnUXaFKIA

[AndrewH]

All the wines with food names i.e. bread & butter, jam cellars, cherry pie, cupcake, etc.

Cakebread
Herb Lamb
Billecart Salmon
Trout Gulch
MacDonald(‘s)
Orange wine
Joseph Swan

Uh, you’ve eaten swan?

[John_Glas]

Prisoner

Is Silver Oak really considered at the same level as Caymus?

No. It is drinkable. Overpriced but very drinkable and sometimes rather enjoyable. Had an 09 Napa a few years ago that I really enjoyed on a pop and pour but day 2 fell apart.

[John_Glas]

All the wines with food names i.e. bread & butter, jam cellars, cherry pie, cupcake, etc.

Don’t forget Cherry Cream. A Total Wine classic.

[Chris_Seiber]

All the wines with food names i.e. bread & butter, jam cellars, cherry pie, cupcake, etc.

Cakebread
Herb Lamb
Billecart Salmon
Trout Gulch
MacDonald(‘s)
Orange wine
Joseph Swan

Uh, you’ve eaten swan?

I pushed it one too many names, I guess.

[John_Glas]

And since Meiomi is part of the family, you may as well list all of the family wines, unless you haven’t had them all.

Hasn’t Meiomi been out of the family for some time?

Departed the family with a $315 million dollar profit. No land owned and just bought a brand name.

[John_Glas]

There are many people on this Board who really like Caymus and Silver Oak. And I would say that very few newbies maintain an inventory on

Shifting to a label of another larger distributor/winery, admittedly I felt some negative bias the first time I tasted at La Crema but some of their SVD wines are quite good and we were on their list for many years. My point - don’t judge if you don’t know what you are talking about.

Someone I know who used to work for Jackson (another triggering company) brought some of these La Crema’s and I found them the same way you found them - exceeding my expectations.

Jackson Family is rocking it right now. They are acquiring great wineries around the world. La Crema is solid for the price point.

[Alex_N]

Prisoner

Is Silver Oak really considered at the same level as Caymus?

No. It is drinkable. Overpriced but very drinkable and sometimes rather enjoyable. Had an 09 Napa a few years ago that I really enjoyed on a pop and pour but day 2 fell apart.

I don’t think $80 is necessarily overpriced for the AV, considering they’ve built a solid reputation over 4 decades. I’d actually expect it to cost more considering some of their neighbors’ pricing. If you want to talk overpriced, I’d definitely start with aftermarket Pappy 12 and Weller’s 12 (which are pretty much the exact same thing in different bottles with different labels), and then the $150 single bottles of Pliny the Younger, but that’s another discussion

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I have to wonder if people who lump together Silver Oak and Caymus have really tasted both. To me Caymus is a bizarre concoction that isn’t much like any wine I want to drink. It’s over-extracted, sweet and in the worst vintages, actually syrupy. Silver Oak can be criticized for the oak treatment but I’ve never had one I thought was sweet or over-extracted. In some vintages the issue was more likely to be lack of extraction, perhaps because they amped up their production.

I tasted the 2017 Silver Oak Alexander on Sunday and it didn’t seem overly oaky to me either. I wouldn’t rush out to buy it but I’d have no problem drinking it.

Rombauer Chardonnay surprised me on the upside. Based on all the bashing I expected it to be the Caymus of Chardonnay, but it was actually quite good. It is indeed oaky but other than that I thought it was pretty nicely balanced and not overtly sweet. Again it’s not something I’ll seek out but I wouldn’t turn down a glass.

I’ve gone back and forth on the basic Veuve. There was a long time when it was pretty mediocre, then it seemed to improve. Then I had a number of mediocre experiences again (probably 3-4 years ago). I haven’t tried it recently. There’s so much good smaller label Champagne in that price range, I’m just not very motivated to buy it.

As someone mentioned upthread, for some of these wines, I think the storage really matters. And some of the mass marketers don’t have the capacity/care to take care of wine, whether its $15 Meiomi or $65 Veuve.

My sister brought a totally shot VC rose to Christmas once, she’d picked it up at the grocery store (full price ugh!) and it was cooked. I think that happens a ton of times, and too many consumers don’t know it’s off/wrong. Would never happen with milk or eggs…

Probably cooked at the store.

[Mark_Maddox]

There are many people on this Board who really like Caymus and Silver Oak. And I would say that very few newbies maintain an inventory on

Shifting to a label of another larger distributor/winery, admittedly I felt some negative bias the first time I tasted at La Crema but some of their SVD wines are quite good and we were on their list for many years. My point - don’t judge if you don’t know what you are talking about.

Someone I know who used to work for Jackson (another triggering company) brought some of these La Crema’s and I found them the same way you found them - exceeding my expectations.

Jackson Family is rocking it right now. They are acquiring great wineries around the world. La Crema is solid for the price point.

I like their Hartford and Hartford Court wines.

[John_Glas]

Someone I know who used to work for Jackson (another triggering company) brought some of these La Crema’s and I found them the same way you found them - exceeding my expectations.

Jackson Family is rocking it right now. They are acquiring great wineries around the world. La Crema is solid for the price point.

I like their Hartford and Hartford Court wines.

Excellent wines and value. I have a Dina’s Zin from 16 I need to age a while longer. Love MN as I got it on closeout for $32.

[ChrisJames]

Has anyone had Freakshow out of Lodi, CA? A non-wine geek guest knew I liked Barolo but couldn’t find any at three stores (!) and got me this instead. I thought the Central Valley was for making jug wines? This tasted like a jug wine, but in a 750. Surprisingly, it was not oaky at all. Just really, really jammy. And this ties into the Masses Have To Be Wrong thread. Three of his friends told him this was a great bottle of wine. I have only ever seen it on a grocery store end-cap display.

[R_Gaston]

It’s easy to call wines garbage if they cost $10 or less and are mass produced in every local grocery stores.

What’s garbage is when you shell out serious $$ on burgundy that tastes like crap. Also natural or orange wines that taste like crap that your hipster friends love to tell you about.

[Rich_Brown]

Jackson Family is rocking it right now. They are acquiring great wineries around the world. La Crema is solid for the price point.

I like their Hartford and Hartford Court wines.

Excellent wines and value. I have a Dina’s Zin from 16 I need to age a while longer. Love MN as I got it on closeout for $32.

Hartford zins are incredible. They kinda fly under the radar but they’ve rocketed up the list of my favorite producers and now sit just underneath Bedrock/Carlisle/Once & Future. Walk a perfect line between the deep fruit and balance/structure.

[JDavisRoby]

I like Silver Oak.

What’s Josh?

A most terrible person with the palate of a blind yak.