General Corkage guidelines / etiquette

[R_Serafin]

@ Steve - 100% agree. I’ve had that experience a few times and each time made sure it was in the tip. in fact, I put that as cash on the table vs a charge for the rest of the bill. Up to him/her how they handle that at the end of the night.

[Mark_Y]

Huh, that surprises me - you mean no impact on the restaurant’s profitability taken as a whole? Or on individual transactions involving corkage, because I assume they must lose some profit they would have made if you just ordered off their list.

I actually think it’s the opposite… I think corkage adds overall value to the restaurant in the long run.

First
Stepping back - most restaurant owners are not opening the restaurant to be anyone’s friend and offer up food for a loss. I would assume in a free market, MOST restaurants (aside from non profit ones of course) are open with the same purpose as most businesses - Long Term Value Maximization. To that end, if you told a restaurant owner ending corkage will increase their bottom line 30% in the LONG run, i bet most would remove corkage. Therefore my view of corkage is that it’s not at all a ‘priviledge’. You may feel lucky in a regulatory environment to have a restauarnt that allow it, but rest assured they allow it for their benefit as much as it is for yours. Even in states like Texas, it’s a tool used as product differentiation meant to drive brand recognition, loyalty (repeat business), and overall value to the restaurant. They MAY (debatable see below) forgo some short term profit, but certainly are gaining long term value or they wouldn’t be doing this.

Second
Put aside long term value maximization. Look at an individual customer visit. Are they losing money on a transaction? Sure the profit is higher in alcohol no doubt.
However if you didn’t bring a $200 btl, would you have bought that bottle for $500 off the list? would you have even spent $200 on alcohol at all? would you have even gone to that restaurant at all? would you have gone to ANY restaurant in the first place? I think one can cite the data on ‘lost revenue’ easily b/c it’s tangible, but the intangible effect and downstream impacts are very difficult to measure. Can you get a team of eocnomics PhDs to attempt to quantify that? sure, I’ve seen it on other businesses, but I’m not aware of that being done for restaurants. So just citing a ‘lost top line’ is not an accurate way to paint the whole picture. Both parties are benefiting from your visit, so don’t need to feel like the restaurant is somehow doing you a favor. Then again, also don’t feel like you are entitled to anything.

That said, Should we generally be good people and respectful? of course.

1. ask about the policy ahead of time, and respect it. If they allow corkage, and charge a fee. great! bring whatever u want (withint their guidelines) and pay the corkage. the restaurant clearly set that policy for a reason. If you want to pay $50 corkage and bring a yellow tail, well that’s on you!

2. tip well - Generally folks on this forum (and if you collect wine), are probably financially better off than the server who’s serving you. so tip generously. I don’t see a need to tip wildly irrationally like some boasts. If I have a $200 bill, i’m happy to tip $40, even $50, especially if the server did a professional job. But why would i tip $100? i rather donate the extra $50 to a elementary school that also need the money. But hopefully a general attitude of respect/kindness is just par for the course.

TLDR:

• ask/check about the policy ahead. If allowed, bring whatever you want within the restaurant guidelines.
• tip appropriately

end of ‘rule of thumb’.

[Steve_Crawford]

if the server doesnt charge you corkage throw it to them as a tip. if they left it off it wasn’t an accident.

I practice this, but I think sometimes it’s waived without mentioning it was waived. Or maybe that makes me feel better about the principal/agent aspect of turning a restaurant fee into a tip.

that makes sense. tipping overall is a shitty institution and unfortunately this is just part of that.

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

1. corkage is a hospitality benefit extended by most restaurants - treat it that way. it’s not a right. it’s not a way to save money, even though that might be an added benefit.

2. there is zero connection with corkage fee, if charged, and the economics of the restaurant. so don’t even think about it.

3. always, always, always, confirm in advance the restaurant’s policy - fee per bottle, limits, etc. ideally get the name of the person telling you. sometimes the policy is on the website, so no need if that’s the case. sometimes they say you cannot bring something on the list, which is fair but i’ll go further and advise doing this even if they don’t say it.

4. bring something “worth” bringing - this is obviously a sliding scale, but i do believe it’s worth signaling to the restaurant that you view this whole matter as per #1 above.

5. when arriving, whomever greets you indicate that you called about the corkage policy and you brought a bottle with you. ask that person what you should do with it and then follow that instruction.

6. in most cases, i also think you should at the very least buy a round of BTG, cocktails, or best case, a bottle off the list.

7. offer your server or whomever is handling you wine a taste. don’t push, but offer nicely.

I subscribe to this mostly.

I rarely buy off the list. I recognize it’s more palatable to the restaurant, but I don’t drink cocktails and don’t like BTG offerings in general. If I’m with a group, happy to share a bottle that we buy, but these days, I don’t drink much at any one sitting so it doesn’t make sense to buy and bring if you are limiting yourself to a couple of glasses and aren’t with a big group. Too me, it means drinking too much, if it’s natural for you, by all means do so.

Make it so the server isn’t losing money by tipping more generously. One way of thinking about itis to think of what the bill would have been had you ordered your regular drinks and wine, vs. what you are charged for corkage, and tip with that larger number in mind. If there is a sommelier doing the opening, probably best to tip them directly (at a fancy place, $20 per bottle is nice, but you could also tip $30 on 2 bottles or $50 on 3, depends on how great the service was). The point is that they are often not part of the tip pool but are compensated as a share of wine sales. (offering tastes are nice, but doesn’t replace a cash tip no matter how pricey the bottle). If everyone is sharing in the tip pool, tipping 25% to 33% (depending on whether corkage was waived) is a simpler way of doing it.

If it’s a restaurant that you go often, don’t always go on busy times. They appreciate the business more when you aren’t displacing folks who are buying off the list.

If I don’t feel that I am treated warmly by the restaurant, I wouldn’t BYO again there. Plenty of places treat me warmly when I take care of the servers, act appreciative of the privelege, and don’t always go during prime time. Doesn’t work everywhere, but have been treated warmly at top restaurants and middle tier ones following this approach. (if not warmly , in general, don’t return). I get treated well far, far more often than not.

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

Yaacov’s list seems reasonable, but I’d point out that its the blinkered perspective of a wine professional in a high end environment. Perhaps in that rareified world every time corkage is offered it really is cannibalizing a supernormal profit from the wine list, but in more typical situations just because someone brings a $100 bottle doesn’t mean they would have spent that off the list if denied corkage. I don’t think those guidelines are reflective of regular non Michelin rated venues.

i was hoping someone would touch on this. my itb status is limited specifically to being the founder of a company that analyzes sales information of wine. i can tell you with utmost confidence that based on our extensive data, corkage has zero impact on the bottom line for a restaurant that offers it (meaning the type of places that have at least a half-decent wine program, not a random indian spot in murray hill). the cost of corkage is entirely in modifying their normal business processes. this therefore applies regardless of market or concept and merely goes under the umbrella of being a “good customer” which in my experience always results in the best returns. people working in restaurants are there to deliver hospitality - so let them. if you ever get the vibe that they are hostile or looking down on corkage it’s likely because they’ve had awful experiences with it from bad customers.

so if my perspective is “blinkered” it’s not because of where i live or what i do, it’s because i’m also taking into account the other side of the transaction, which is rarely if every properly discussed here.

Great info. Wish it was more widely distributed as some prominent restuaranteurs think the concept is distasteful, and never allowed it.

[HenryB]

One thing I’d like to add, to be honest - I think its a bit rude to take a bottle of wine they have on the list, especially at the higher end.
That being said, my local restaurant is doing a magnum of 1998 Hermitage La Chapelle for like £1300, I’ve got one which cost like £150…

[I_Howe]

From reading these boards for a few years, it seems that corkage varies considerably by location. Here in Orlando, I do it regularly. And I have never been made to feel uncomfortable about it.

When the server shows up and grabs the bottle, I try to make conversation with them and gauge / probe their interest in wine. Some have turned out to be wine geeks, just like me. Some could not tell you much about wine other than the color difference between red / white. If I sense any interest at all, I will ask them to grab a glass and try a pour. Sometimes I do this early, sometimes later, just depends on the moment.

One time recently, the server had started studying for her sommelier test, hoping to take it in 2020, but that was obviously derailed by COVID. I offered her a glass, but she said she was only allowed after hours, so I let her know to leave enough in the bottle and she could take it with her at the end of her shift. It was, I think, a 2014 Jean Foillard, which we might take for granted here on WB, but was something she was unfamiliar with, so she was very thankful.

When I am not charged corkage, I tip it back to the server. I figure I had planned to spend that money anyway. And if they did not charge me, it’s probably because we had a really good time and I owe them more anyway.

As others have said, I never bring anything on the list. For me, this is easy. I like weird wines. The last wine I took to a restaurant was a 2005 Jean Foillard Cote du Py. I like Cru Beaujolais, I like Chinon, I like Rhone, I like aged Bordeaux. Try finding any of those on a wine list in Orlando. For you, since you are drinking Cali cabs, I would try to find small producers that you like. Carrying those into a restaurant will give you a conversation starter. “Yes, this wine is from Napa, but the total production was only 450 cases”, or something along those lines.

[Arv_R]

One thing I’d like to add, to be honest - I think its a bit rude to take a bottle of wine they have on the list, especially at the higher end.
That being said, my local restaurant is doing a magnum of 1998 Hermitage La Chapelle for like £1300, I’ve got one which cost like £150…

I think when venues have rules like that its impractical, and just causes problems. Not every place has their list available on line, and sometimes when they do, its dated and not reflective of what will actually be in their wine book upon arrival. And then, if you call to ask if your Ch. Hoity Toity is on the list, you can end up speaking to a hostess who has no idea, and won’t check the list since she’s busy now. One can also end up with the situation where the restaurant will view the 98 Beaucastel you might consider bringing the “same” as the 2011 Coudelet de Beaucastel they have, and thus barred from being corkage eligible.

My general life observation is that the more arcane/involved a restaurant’s corkage policy is, the more likely I end up seeing ‘closed for renovations’ signs eventually. Everyone seems to think they can copy Thomas Keller’s policies on corkage on the back end, without doing all the hard work on the front end that built the market power to command his fees.

[Rodrigo_B]

One thing I’d like to add, to be honest - I think its a bit rude to take a bottle of wine they have on the list, especially at the higher end.
That being said, my local restaurant is doing a magnum of 1998 Hermitage La Chapelle for like £1300, I’ve got one which cost like £150…

While I do try to avoid bringing a wine on the wine list, but if a restaurant allows it, I don’t think it’s rude to bring a wine that’s on their list and is on the expensive side.

While I may be willing to spend $300 on a bottle of wine at retail, I’m very unlikely to spend $800 on that same bottle at a restaurant. I understand that the realities of the economics of restaurants often times demand high mark ups, but at times I can’t help but feel ripped off having to pay multiple times the retail value of a wine, especially when the absolute value of that multiple is hundreds of dollars.

I do think it can be a bit rude to bring a bottle on the cheaper end. With the cost of the bottle plus corkage you could likely spend the same amount on a wine from a restaurant’s list (if they have a good wine list), but I’m not spending $800+ on a wine at a restaurant, hell I don’t even spend that much on a wine at retail.

[HenryB]

One thing I’d like to add, to be honest - I think its a bit rude to take a bottle of wine they have on the list, especially at the higher end.
That being said, my local restaurant is doing a magnum of 1998 Hermitage La Chapelle for like £1300, I’ve got one which cost like £150…

I think when venues have rules like that its impractical, and just causes problems. Not every place has their list available on line, and sometimes when they do, its dated and not reflective of what will actually be in their wine book upon arrival. And then, if you call to ask if your Ch. Hoity Toity is on the list, you can end up speaking to a hostess who has no idea, and won’t check the list since she’s busy now. One can also end up with the situation where the restaurant will view the 98 Beaucastel you might consider bringing the “same” as the 2011 Coudelet de Beaucastel they have, and thus barred from being corkage eligible.

My general life observation is that the more arcane/involved a restaurant’s corkage policy is, the more likely I end up seeing ‘closed for renovations’ signs eventually. Everyone seems to think they can copy Thomas Keller’s policies on corkage on the back end, without doing all the hard work on the front end that built the market power to command his fees.

I’m not saying its a venue rule, it’s just somewhat poor etiquette in some ways. I may have only once or twice seen a restaurant have a policy that prevented people from bringing wines they already had

[Arv_R]

One thing I’d like to add, to be honest - I think its a bit rude to take a bottle of wine they have on the list, especially at the higher end.
That being said, my local restaurant is doing a magnum of 1998 Hermitage La Chapelle for like £1300, I’ve got one which cost like £150…

I think when venues have rules like that its impractical, and just causes problems. Not every place has their list available on line, and sometimes when they do, its dated and not reflective of what will actually be in their wine book upon arrival. And then, if you call to ask if your Ch. Hoity Toity is on the list, you can end up speaking to a hostess who has no idea, and won’t check the list since she’s busy now. One can also end up with the situation where the restaurant will view the 98 Beaucastel you might consider bringing the “same” as the 2011 Coudelet de Beaucastel they have, and thus barred from being corkage eligible.

My general life observation is that the more arcane/involved a restaurant’s corkage policy is, the more likely I end up seeing ‘closed for renovations’ signs eventually. Everyone seems to think they can copy Thomas Keller’s policies on corkage on the back end, without doing all the hard work on the front end that built the market power to command his fees.

I’m not saying its a venue rule, it’s just somewhat poor etiquette in some ways. I may have only once or twice seen a restaurant have a policy that prevented people from bringing wines they already had

Whether its the restaurant’s rule (which I’ve seen) or ‘poor etiquette’ on the patron’s part, it’s difficult for both parties to abide by it even if well intended.

I think a good lodestar for any kind of policy is whether its understandable, and implementable. The ‘don’t bring a wine on the list’ may sound good in theory but I don’t think works in the real world.

[Philip_N_Jones]

It’s good to see that people do not think corkage is a God-given right, or people complaining about corkage fees.
Restaurants have trouble making a profit, so a reasonably high corkage fee is necessary. I am glad to pay it.
Here in Portland Oregon, most corkage fees run $15-25. The average is about $20. It is very very rare to find a restaurant here that does not allow corkage. Almost impossible to find one. We are very lucky. At the time that the pandemic hit, I was planning a trip to Phoenix and Scottsdale. Very difficult to find restaurants there that allow corkage. I think it is a government regulation thing.
I take wine whenever we go out. I like to drink my own wine, and save a buck or two. And I am happy to pay a corkage fee. Unless it’s $30 or $35.

[Brian_Tuite]

The etiquette probably varies widely depending on where you live. Here in California I don’t think twice about bringing a bottle or two with me. Most times 1/2 the patrons have their own wines when coming in the door but being wine country that’s not uncommon.

Usually a red and a white or an older red and a back-up just in case. I’ll scan the list for a BTG or bubbles but for the most part the restaurant sets their own corkage fee that they feel is fair. Most will waive corkage for one if you purchase another from the list. Some have a sliding scale, $20 for the 1st bottle $25 for the second and/or limit how many you can open.

For wine dinners most will reduce/waive corkage and we’ll tip heavily afterwards. We’ve had a few nights at Rosso where the tip was larger than the tab for 12 people.

The first time might feel odd but we’ve been doing this so long it’s as normal as putting on shoes.

[David_Bu3ker]

It’s good to see that people do not think corkage is a God-given right, or people complaining about corkage fees.
Restaurants have trouble making a profit, so a reasonably high corkage fee is necessary. I am glad to pay it.
Here in Portland Oregon, most corkage fees run $15-25. The average is about $20. It is very very rare to find a restaurant here that does not allow corkage. Almost impossible to find one. We are very lucky. At the time that the pandemic hit, I was planning a trip to Phoenix and Scottsdale. Very difficult to find restaurants there that allow corkage. I think it is a government regulation thing.
I take wine whenever we go out. I like to drink my own wine, and save a buck or two. And I am happy to pay a corkage fee. Unless it’s $30 or $35.

Yes, it’s often a government thing. Many states do not allow licensed establishments to offer corkage. Then in some states where it is allowed, beverage reps lie to restaurants to get them to disallow it. I have direct experience with four Connecticut restaurants that were duped by the same distributor rep.

[P_Sepsas]

As a Hotelier in Europe I can tell you what I offer in my establishments.

We allow the guests to bring their own bottle and we actually charge a corkage fee which is close to the profitability that we earn from our cheapest wine on the list.

Although we limit it to 2 bottles per table and the wine has to be a wine that we don’t have in our cellar, our cellar has ~6k bottles. Of course there are exceptions and many times we waive the fee or the restrictions.

Some times it is even a complement if a guest brings a really nice bottle of wine to enjoy it at our hotel’s restaurant.

Having a hotel/restaurant in which someone believes that it is the right place to enjoy his Leroy/Rousseau/Margaux or any of the 1st Tier wines can only be received as a complement.

Of course it is nice to offer a taste to the sommelier.

[Rodrigo_B]

As a Hotelier in Europe I can tell you what I offer in my establishments.

We allow the guests to bring their own bottle and we actually charge a corkage fee which is close to the profitability that we earn from our cheapest wine on the list.

Although we limit it to 2 bottles per table and the wine has to be a wine that we don’t have in our cellar, our cellar has ~6k bottles. Of course there are exceptions and many times we waive the fee or the restrictions.

Some times it is even a complement if a guest brings a really nice bottle of wine to enjoy it at our hotel’s restaurant.

Having a hotel/restaurant in which someone believes that it is the right place to enjoy his Leroy/Rousseau/Margaux or any of the 1st Tier wines can only be received as a complement.

Of course it is nice to offer a taste to the sommelier.

Thanks for sharing your perspective Panos.

In your experience what types of wines do people generally bring? Is there a sort of rough average retail price of the types of wines that are brought to your establishment? Is it mostly really expensive and rare wine or do people bring in $200-$300 wines? More?

I’d be interested to hear from the perspective someone on the other side of things.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

It’s good to see that people do not think corkage is a God-given right, or people complaining about corkage fees.
Restaurants have trouble making a profit, so a reasonably high corkage fee is necessary. I am glad to pay it.
Here in Portland Oregon, most corkage fees run $15-25. The average is about $20. It is very very rare to find a restaurant here that does not allow corkage. Almost impossible to find one. We are very lucky. At the time that the pandemic hit, I was planning a trip to Phoenix and Scottsdale. Very difficult to find restaurants there that allow corkage. I think it is a government regulation thing.
I take wine whenever we go out. I like to drink my own wine, and save a buck or two. And I am happy to pay a corkage fee. Unless it’s $30 or $35.

No one complained about corkage fees until you posted.

[Jeff_Rosenberg]

if the server doesnt charge you corkage throw it to them as a tip. if they left it off it wasn’t an accident.

On multiple occasions the corkage fee was omitted from our bill. This always brings a couple of questions to mind. Was the server authorized to waive the fee? Is the server surreptitiously trying to enhance their tip?

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

If they say you are getting a free dessert, do you also worry about those issues?

How about If they give your party a free drink while you wait to be seated?

Absent a reason not to, I assume they have the authority and discretion to do so. No different than free dessert. If they have the authority and discretion to do so, then what they expect regarding the tip is not relevant. Nor do I think that’s the primary motivation, I know people who don’t tip any extra and the lower the bill the lower the tip.

Would love to hear from restaurant owners/management on the issue.

[Jeff_Rosenberg]

If they say you are getting a free dessert, do you also worry about those issues?

How about If they give your party a free drink while you wait to be seated?

Absent a reason not to, I assume they have the authority and discretion to do so. No different than free dessert. If they have the authority and discretion to do so, then what they expect regarding the tip is not relevant. Nor do I think that’s the primary motivation, I know people who don’t tip any extra and the lower the bill the lower the tip.

Would love to hear from restaurant owners/management on the issue.

Based on my experience, free drinks and dessert are offered as assuagement for some issue at the restaurant. “We apologize for the delay on your reserved seating time. Can we offer you a complimentary cocktail?” or “Sorry for the mix up with your order. Please enjoy a dessert on us.” Thus far in my experience, an omitted corkage fee has never come with an explanation.