Gilman's new issue - essay on serving wine

[Jayson_Cohen]

I take a more cautious approach, trying a little pour first: if it’s fantastic, why take a chance on decanting making it “even better”?

This might work with younger wines, but if you have an older bottle that you’ve stood up in order to let the sediment settle down then you’ve lost that as soon as you tip the bottle to make that first pour.

Speaking of decanting, this is one of the things that drives me batty about a lot of wine lovers. They’ll age a bottle for 25 years to where they think it’s ready to drink, then they will pull it from their cellar, throw it in the car, and drive it to a dinner or tasting and then decant it without giving it time to stand up and without any thought for the texture of the wine. Yeah, it still might taste good, but one of the reasons we age wine is to smooth out the texture and create suppleness. You totally lose this if you travel with an older wine without decanting it first. Most wines that have been cellared need some air, so stand it up for a week, and decant it properly.

+1

[john_stimson]

Always an interesting discussion. I happen to be a decanter (often a double decant). But I would ask the reverse question. Give some examples of wines that have been hurt by decanting (not just given too much air, but the act of pouring into another vessel), and explain why this occurs. There are a substantial number of excellent wine people who are opposed to decanting because they feel it diminishes the wine (If I get this straight they feel that it can suppress the nose and impact some of the more delicate and subtle aspects of the wine.) This includes most Burgundians, and a number of Piedmont winemakers. Personally I don’t really understand it and haven’t experienced it (although I’m not sure how I would be able to tell in some controlled manner). I am open minded, however, and despite having 40 or so years of experience, willing to consider that I’m wrong.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Intimidation has nothing to do with my agreement with him.

Confirmation bias?

[John_Ammons]

Agree with the camp that favors “pour small sniff/taste first, then strategize.”

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

Nope. Don’t agree. The glass is very often my chosen vessel for watching development, as I can swirl, sniff and sip most easily. I am not very interested in catching every drop of the wine at its most open. The story of the wine, how it develops, is much more interesting and exciting to me. I respect John very much, but on the subject of decanting, this amateur is not particularly intimidated by his judgment.

Totally agree with this. I try not to open good wines unless I have at least a solid hour or two to sit with them and experience their development in the glass

Agree with both. Much of the fun in wine tasting is seeing the evolution of the wine in the glass over time. That being said, I will decant if:

1. I expect it’ll take hours to start opening (e.g. young nebbiolo)
2. If going to a blind tasting or wine dinner where I don’t have hours to focus on a single wine

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Intimidation has nothing to do with my agreement with him.

Confirmation bias?

But seriously, I decant lots of reds. First step is hold the bottle horizontal up to a bright light to check sediment. If there’s sediment, it’s decant time . This applies mainly to young wines, any older red with a reputation for sediment gets a decant.

[ybarselah]

i decant all still wines, almost

gilman also prefers flutes for champagne.

so… ?

[Ethan_Abraham]

I rarely decant, but more for practical reasons. I get home from work (well, whenever that happens again) about 20 minutes before dinner, which is, on a good day, a 20 minute affair. So what’s the point? I’ll usually pour another glass at the end of dinner and I can follow that a bit once the kids are in bed.

Even if I’m going to a dinner the best I can do is a short double decant in the morning (or overnight but that’s a bit risky) before taking my bottle to work.

[m_ristev]

Intimidation has nothing to do with my agreement with him.

You have a lot of experience, I have no criticism whatsoever. But I think a lot of people decant wine because it makes them feel like serious wine people. And it imbues the wine with significance. Many blind tastings show people prefer wine pop and pour. So who can say? There are plenty of wines I feel improve with a little air. There are wines that most definitely shut down or fail. I choose my default on the cautious side. You can always give more air, but you can never take it back.

need to give this a hefty cosign, especially the last part. i have found extended decanting to lock up red burgundy more often than not.

[John_Preston]

Well, I know that I dislike Gilman’s view of “amateur,” …sometimes I decant. Sometimes I do not.

This actually could start a new thread about condescending attitudes…in the industry, with winemakers, retailers, reviewers, wine geeks, sommeliers, etc. But I will not go there…

Cheers,
JP

[maureen_nelson]

Intimidation has nothing to do with my agreement with him.

You have a lot of experience, I have no criticism whatsoever. But I think a lot of people decant wine because it makes them feel like serious wine people. And it imbues the wine with significance. Many blind tastings show people prefer wine pop and pour. So who can say? There are plenty of wines I feel improve with a little air. There are wines that most definitely shut down or fail. I choose my default on the cautious side. You can always give more air, but you can never take it back.

need to give this a hefty cosign, especially the last part. i have found extended decanting to lock up red burgundy more often than not.

I have found this to be true only with mugnier’s chambolles.

[Mattstolz]

I don’t have a TON of experience with old wines, but I have had a couple of times with oldish to old Nebbiolo where I opened it, and the first initial whiffs from the bottle are BEAUTIFUL. then for some reason even with a ton of airtime (8+ hours) it just never gets back to that initial whiff. the same thing happens when im pouring them into the decanter. anyone else ever experience this?

[Jayson_Cohen]

Yes. Old Nebbiolo can be fickle.

[alan_weinberg]

I decant older Burgs to get them off their sediment.

I decant younger Burgs to aerate.

I rarely decant whites and have never decanted Champagne.

I don’t know what is right but that has worked for me.

[Jen_M_a_s_o_n]

I would love to hear more thoughts on decanting older Nebbiolo (1975, 1985). I have a bias for a longer decant for most wines, but feel out of my depth with some of these older, potentially more fragile wines.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

I don’t have a TON of experience with old wines, but I have had a couple of times with oldish to old Nebbiolo where I opened it, and the first initial whiffs from the bottle are BEAUTIFUL. then for some reason even with a ton of airtime (8+ hours) it just never gets back to that initial whiff. the same thing happens when im pouring them into the decanter. anyone else ever experience this?

What do you mean by old or oldish? I’ve never experienced that with nebbiolo from the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s. Those are almost always much better with a ton of air, though not always decanted. Old nebbiolo is the exception to most rules. What I’d consider on the young side - say 90,s on - then yes, those definitely shut down so I do not decant them.

[Oliver_McCrum]

I decant older Burgs to get them off their sediment.

I decant younger Burgs to aerate.

I rarely decant whites and have never decanted Champagne.

I don’t know what is right but that has worked for me.

For me too.

Plus I hate straining good wine through my teeth to get rid of sediment.

[Greg_K]

I tend to decant more often than not, but I’ve found I’m decanting white burgundy more than anything else these days. Especially for producers who use reduction (which, as Grandpa Simpson would say, was the style at the time), more air helps.

[john_stimson]

Intimidation has nothing to do with my agreement with him.

You have a lot of experience, I have no criticism whatsoever. But I think a lot of people decant wine because it makes them feel like serious wine people. And it imbues the wine with significance. Many blind tastings show people prefer wine pop and pour. So who can say? There are plenty of wines I feel improve with a little air. There are wines that most definitely shut down or fail. I choose my default on the cautious side. You can always give more air, but you can never take it back.

need to give this a hefty cosign, especially the last part. i have found extended decanting to lock up red burgundy more often than not.

When most of us talk about decanting we’re not talking about decanting, then locking up somewhere for 6 hours. We’re talking about decanting, and then doing what you would do with a non-decanted bottle. checking now and then, drinking slowly. perhaps serving at dinner an hour or two or three later. The only time where I see extended decanting locking up a wine being a problem is the situation where someone brings a wine to dinner that they decanted 8 hours ahead of time…

[Mattstolz]

I don’t have a TON of experience with old wines, but I have had a couple of times with oldish to old Nebbiolo where I opened it, and the first initial whiffs from the bottle are BEAUTIFUL. then for some reason even with a ton of airtime (8+ hours) it just never gets back to that initial whiff. the same thing happens when im pouring them into the decanter. anyone else ever experience this?

What do you mean by old or oldish? I’ve never experienced that with nebbiolo from the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s. Those are almost always much better with a ton of air, though not always decanted. Old nebbiolo is the exception to most rules. What I’d consider on the young side - say 90,s on - then yes, those definitely shut down so I do not decant them.

the two most notable ones were an 82 produttori normale and a 99 Giacosa Barbaresco. both of them I opened, smelled (didn’t taste) double decanted back into bottle about 3-4 hours later, and then started drinking about 1-2 hours after that (over a couple hours).