Grape Variety Names

WINE TALK
21

Touriga Nacional is less obscure than Ribolla Gialla? In the USA?

22

Up until now, all Touriga made in the US had to be labeled just as “Touriga” rather than Touriga Nacional or Touriga Franca (or Francesa). I had a discussion with a winemaker about this some years ago who said that was equivalent to being forced to call both Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc just “Cabernet”. But it looks like no one had submitted a petition (at least a successful one) to have Touriga Nacional approved for wine labels before fairly recently.

There are certainly a bunch of fairly familiar names in that group of varieties that have recently received administrative approval, along with some that are highly obscure to me (“By George”? “King of the North”?). Also note the approval for “Tinta Cao” - this spelling had to be specifically approved by the TTB even though “Tinto Cão” had already been approved. So it is actually necessary to have both “Carignan” and “Carignane” approved as well as “Cinsaut” and “Cinsault” - and currently “Cinsault” is not approved. Technically you could not label an American wine as Blaufrankisch, since that spelling has not been approved - Blaufränkisch is ok, along with synonyms Lemberger and Limberger. I’m sure sometimes these things slip by whoever at TTB is doing the COLA for some wines but unless the specific spelling of the grape variety is approved, you may need to change it on your label.

23

Ha! What is this? My varietal is more obscure than yours? [training.gif]

Touriga nacional is generally considered the most serious red grape in Portugal and is grown all over that country now. Ribolla gialla is grown in Friuli and is just one of scads of (pretty interesting) Italian white grapes.

Moreover, there were 255 producing acres of touriga nacional in California in 2016, according to the USDA. The small plantings of ribolla gialla weren’t even recorded, even though tocai friuliano, vermentino and grenache blanc vineyards were.

24

Welschriesling? Is that Riesling from Wales? neener [cheers.gif]

25

Who is actually making a TN in the USA? I have never seen one. I have seen several RG wines as well as white blends featuring substantial RG.

26

I think it’s often blended, but quick Google and Wine Searcher searches turned up 12 producers who offer varietally-designated bottlings from places as diverse as Napa, Paso Robles, the Sierra Foothills and Lodi:

Steele
Kenneth Volk
Jeff Rundquist Wines
Orison
Idle Hour
C.G. Di Arie
Wild Horse Peak
South Coast Winery
End of the Vine
Wise Villa
Via Vega
Miramonte

I only see five producers of ribolla in California on Wine Searcher:
Forlorn Hope, Matthiason, Grassi, Ryme Vare and Cowan Cellars.

27

Oscure grape? Maybe not.

Obscure wineries making it? Oh yeah! :wink:

28

True, but the ribolla line-up isn’t exactly a who’s-who either.

29

CellarTracker shows RG from several more USA producers. Heck, my own cellar has a couple not on your list, most notably Arnot-Roberts.

Massican also makes a primarily RG. It’s just not enough to be labeled as such.

30

If you look at the more comprehensive lists of regional names and alternative spellings for a variety, it’s common for one to have 20-30.

People comment about how many names there are for a variety in places like Italy and Spain, but it’s not any different in France. When they don’t put a variety name on a label, we use our standardized names when talking about them. When they do, it’s either the standardized French name that we use, or it’s something obscure. But, that doesn’t mean it’s the name they use locally.

The ATF/TTB nixed some old American names for grapes like Grey Riesling, Napa Gamay and Pinot St. George, while leaving other like Petite Sirah. There’s wording maybe Ken can put up that indicates some bureaucrat had a hair up his wazoo about how many this and that Rieslings there were, banned all the fake ones and specifically calls out that no new ones are to be approved. Yet there is room to apply for an alternative spelling/name for an already approved variety, if you can make the case.

31

I should have elaborated that I think it is just fine for traditional local names to be used. It might be better, marketing wise, for a name to be associated with a place rather than with a grape variety grown in dozens of regions.

32

No (it´s not Walesriesling … !) neener

This is Riesling from (the) Welsch (region) … which was a German term for the Nothern Balcan and Italian people and regions, also incl. Slovenia, former called “Lower Styria” until WW I - but also Friuli, Trentino/Southern Tirol …

It absolutely no Riesling, it´s a seperate grape variety …

33

Well Dreux, they’re sew manny weighs two due it in English. Take you’re pic.

34

FIFY [snort.gif]

35

Just aren’t going to give up on that, are you?

deadhorse

neener

36

The current TTB ban on additional Riesling grape names for American wine labels can be found in one of the documents I linked to earlier:

Section 4.93 also places certain eligibility restrictions on the approval of grape variety names. TTB will not approve a new name:

If it has been used previously for a different grape variety;
If it contains a term or name found to be misleading under § 4.39 (27 CFR 4.39); or
If it contains the term “Riesling.” (See T.D. ATF-370, 61 FR 522, published 1/8/96.)

The detailed discussion of Riesling, as well as a number of other issues regarding grape variety names and synonyms, can be found in this Federal Register document from early 1996:

37

I love the fact that the Wine Institute, Heublein and Wine World Estate argued (see page 530) that “riesling” should encompass all the grapes in the US that had ever included “riesling” in their names, even if they weren’t riesling. Thank heavens the bureaucrats stood firm on that.

38

Except that again, the Welschriesling, or Olaszrizling, or Italian Riesling, or whatever else it is called, is an old grape grown in many regions by those names before the TTB or the USA even existed. It is well understood in Austria and Hungary and Slovenia not to be related at all to what lots of people call Rhine Riesling. Of course, since the US didn’t know the others so well, we just shortened it to “Riesling” and figured that was all there was.

I once asked an Australian wine maker why their Riesling was generally dry. He told me once that in Australia, all white wine was just called Riesling, but a number of years ago, a bunch of them got together and decided that they’d try to come up with a common style to help them in overseas markets. So they abandoned the generic use of the term and decided to make a dry version of the wine. Not sure if that’s 100 percent true but it satisfied me at the time.

And then there are parts of Nevada where they use the term “Coke” for any kind of soda. I was with some people years ago and a guy ordered a Coke and the waitress asked what flavor and he said orange and I was thinking WTF?

39

I like the approach taken in WINE GRAPES, which tries to list varieties by their oldest names. That’s for organizational purposes, which helps us to sort through a pretty complicated mess. (They list Welschriesling as Graševina.) What’s on the front label should be up to the winemakers, as long as it isn’t misleading. They obviously have tradition and marketing concerns to consider. Of course I’m also in favor of as much info as possible, so having something like “this is the same grapes as the XXXXX from the YYYY region” on the back label and/or elsewhere is helpful.

40

So you really want to replace zinfandel with crljenak kaštelanski or tribidrag? [wink.gif]