Grenache Curious

[David_B]

Just had a bottle of I. Brand Grenache that was pretty delicious and more of a lighter/medium bodied style. It was from the Besson Vineyard, which is over 100 years old.

Bedrock Gambrels of the Sky is another good one although it’s not 100% Grenache.

[Otto_Forsberg]

IME anything from the S. Rhone (CDP, CDR, Etc) tends to be rather high alcohol and heavy.
It also is distinct from other regions with noticeable garrigue.
I can’t explain why but I tend to like Gigondas. I think it has good balance and reasonable pricing.

Are you familiar with Vacqueyras? Of the four appellations in the heart of S. Rhône, I’ve found CdPs to be the heaviest and most ripe in style, closely followed by Lirac. On the other hand, Gigondas and Vacqueyras seem to fare a lot better despite these warm vintages - they’ve often come across as a bit lighter and more balanced in style compared to CdP and Lirac.

Haven’t done that much comparison, because S. Rhône really isn’t my thing, but I’ve noticed that on average I tend to prefer Gigondas and Vacqueyras over Lirac and CdP.

[dougwilder]

Sonja Magdevski’s Clementine Carter, Nenow, Nicora, Brecon Estate. All of these are from either Paso Robles or Santa Barbara.

[LasseK1]

Had the Ca’ di Mat, Fuente de los Huertos, 2018, not long ago. Very light in style. I liked it a lot.

I served it blind for my friends along with another Grenache. Here are my notes from IG:

"Aux Mages, Ætheria, 2016.
Ca’ di Mat, Fuente de los Huertos, 2018.

The two wines was served blind side by side. This is two great examples of modern Grenache. Both made in a light style without any noticeable alcohol. The grapes in Ætheria comes from California and Fuente de los Huertos from the Gredos in Spain.

Both have a beautiful candied red fruit, with strawberries as the dominating note. Ætheria’s fruit was a bit sweeter in it’s expression, but the wine was also deeper and more complex in its current state. Fuente de los Huertos was very young and with a nice hint of licorice.
Grenache and Pinot Noir was guessed and Rayas was mentioned a few times in the conversation which makes sense here.

Great wines!"

[Mike_Davila]

Thanks for all the great info! Has anyone had the Barroche Pure? It’s another 100% Grenache CdP and gets solid scores in CT. My curiosity is piqued, no idea if it is at all Rayas like in character.

Yes, I have had Pure and really enjoyed it, but have never had Rayas, so I can’t offer an opinion on how they compare.

[Michael_Martin]

I love Grenache, southern Rhône, Spanish, California. They can be all over the board and that’s what makes them fun to explore.
Some of the domestic ones that I have enjoyed are Carlisle, Bedrock, Ocelli (Washington), Dirty and Rowdy and Jaffurs to name a few.
I want to try Tercero as well. Larry seems to do well with more delicate grapes.

Some of the best have been southern Rhône’s namely Domaine Bosquets.

[Eric_White]

Eric Kent makes a pretty darn nice one

[LasseK1]

Eben Sadie’s Soldaat is also very nice.

[John_Glas]

RMP gave the 2001 a very high score (97?)

That would be the first indicator that I would not buy that vintage.

[Laurent_Gibet]

Rayas, that I am lucky enough to drink often is a wonder … and one of the best reds in the world.
These other wines produced by Emmanuel Reynaud VDP Vaucluse domaine des Tours and Côtes du Rhône Château des Tours are among the best bargains in the world.

Sierra de Gredos of course and recently a wonderful Castilla y Leon (Sierra de Gredos) Jimenez Landi El Reventon 2009 : 17,5/20
Excellent wines when I visited the area in 2019 :
Comando-G Las Umbrias 2018 : 18/20
Daniel Landi El Reventon Ladera (grande parcelle plein sud – 0,7 ha) 2018 : 16,5/17
Daniel Landi El Reventon (petite parcelle – 0,3 ha) 2018 : 17/17,5
Daniel Landi Las Iruelas 2018 : 17/20

Among my best grenache ever, at the domain : Priorat Terroir al Limit Les Manyes 2017 : 19/20 (grenache).

Priorat Alvaro Palacios tasted at the domain :
Priorat Alvaro Palacios La Baixada 2019 : 18/20
Priorat Alvaro Palacios Les Aubagetes 2019 : 18/20
Priorat Alvaro Palacios L’Ermita 2019 : 19/20
But they are not pure grenache (carignan Inside)


Montsant René Barbier Espectacle (Catalogne) is worth trying. I had an excellent 2004 in 2016.

Sadie Family Soldaat 2014 found very good in 2014 (16,5/20) in a wide grenache wines panel.

I need to taste again :
Palacios Remondo Rioja Quinon de Valmira
Vino de la Tierra de Castilla y Leon - Telmo Rodriguez « Pegaso Granito »
Vino de la Tierra de Castilla y Leon - Telmo Rodriguez « Pegaso Barrancos de Pizarra »
(Telmo Rodriguez Rioja Las Beatas is not pure grenache)

[Scott_LE]

Going to drop a WA winery most have probably never heard of, but the winemaker is extremely passionate about Grenache and has sourced some fruit off WeatherEye vineyard on Red Mt. Check out Upsidedown. The Grenache is the classic lighter body style and very good. If familiar with K Vintners The Boy it’s made in a similar style.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Thanks for all the great info! Has anyone had the Barroche Pure? It’s another 100% Grenache CdP and gets solid scores in CT. My curiosity is piqued, no idea if it is at all Rayas like in character.

Had it once. It’s in the conversation of best Grenache I’ve ever had. Huge wine, though.

[CF_Binnig]

There is a lot of bad Grenache around. The grape is originally from Spain, but people associate it with France. However, until very recently, Spain had more acreage than the entire rest of the world. Most of it went to rosado and sangria. In France, a lot of it went to rosé and jug wine. Rayas is a fine example, but it’s become kind of a cult wine and it shouldn’t be. One of the problems is that the grape needs sun, but you have to watch it so it doesn’t over produce and over ripen.

In Spain, there are a few producers who are champions of the grape, and in Priorat especially there are some versions that people love, but Clos Erasmus, loved by many, is to me very sweet and ripe and I can’t remember the specific vintage but a few years ago one critic gave it 100 points and I found it almost undrinkable, and I like Grenache. So it’s always a matter of personal taste. A better example IMHO is Espectacle del Montsant, from Monstant, made by René Barbier. A cheaper one would be from Bodegas Borsao, coming from Campo de Borja, in Aragón. They are aiming to be the benchmark for the grape. The basic bottle usually has some earthy notes to balance out the bright fruit.

From the US, a shockingly good version is Joel Gott’s Alkai, which is almost a textbook example of a wine made from that grape and which you can find in supermarkets. Ridge does one but I’ve never particularly cared for it, and Qupe also does one that unfortunately I never found compelling. Beckmen, in Santa Ynez, used to do a very nice one but I haven’t had it in a few years.

From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio’s Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that’s almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.

A really great value from Australia is from Yangarra, both their OV version and their more expensive High Sands bottling. They do a few others but I can’t remember the names. McLaren Vale is becoming known for Grenache in Australia, particularly the Blewitt Springs region. But don’t overlook Barossa, for Yaluma, d’Arenberg, and John Duval.

We did blind tastings yearly for a long time and at home we drank a lot of Grenache, so it’s hard to come up with a short list but these are a few off the top.

I believe the Joel Gott bottling is spelled Alakai. It is quite good for the price.

[Laurent_Gibet]

From the US, I’d recommend Birichino and A Tribute to Grace. They aren’t necessarily Rayas-like but they are very much in the red-fruited, lighter colored camp, Birichino in particular.

To get something closer to Rayas at a lower price I’d go with the other wines from the same family. Maybe roughly in order of most Rayas-like to least:

Pignan
Ch. des Tours Vacqueyras
Fonsalette (sometimes more tannic, though)
Pialade
Ch. des Tours Cotes du Rhone
Domaine des Tours Vaucluse

The grapes stray away from Rayas’ 100% Grenache but there are a lot of similarities in the style across the line. There’s a certain amount of get-what-you-pay-for, though, and at least in the US all of these are expensive for their appellations. If you try one of the lesser ones and like it, it’s worth a splurge on Pignan or Fonsalette. I would try to start with the Tours CdR as it’s not that much more expensive than the Vaucluse and probably better bang for buck. You can give it a long decant.

February 2020, Discovery for me :
"A tribute to Grace 2017" : 16/20 (hence 90/100, very good wine)
Grenache - Angela Osborne Santa Barbara Highland
Distingué, floral, fraise, cinsault de classe ou Monvigliero de Burlotto, sans les tannins, un esprit Emmanuel Reynaud - de Rayas - également)

Pialade is difficult to find but a fantastic bargain …
Pignan is very clos to Rayas, same price at the domain, slightly more balsamic (Emmanuel Reynaud says).

[Peter_Petersen]

Chapelle St Theodoric is an excellent Cd9P that is in the Rayas style. The vineyards are very similar and adjacent to Rayas.

[Jason_L]

Surfacing this thread because I had a 2012 Barroche Pure last night. It was difficult to get a bead on as it took a long time to come together. After a couple hours, I was enjoying it - spicecake, fig jam, raspberry and a delicate sort of gamey, savory accent that I don’t normally find in Grenache. I kept wondering if it was a bit of brett, but it was distinctly different. Must be a terroir signature. The wine is really nice but I did find it tough to drink two glasses, which I suppose is often my issue with 100% Grenache wines.

[Yao_C]

Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity

Clarendon Hills would be a good example that is not big, ripe and heavy from Australia. They do exist but need to search for them. I am sure there are several quality examples that don’t get exported.

I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto’s poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.

I opened a bottle of 1996 Clarendon Hills Kangarilla Old Vines last night and it was not in the least over-ripe, gloppy, raisined, or over-extracted. It was balanced nicely on its acidity, of which there was a good amount, and reminded me of good cru Bojo with age. Went down a treat with sushi (not joking)

[Dave_McIsaac]

Clarendon Hills would be a good example that is not big, ripe and heavy from Australia. They do exist but need to search for them. I am sure there are several quality examples that don’t get exported.

I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto’s poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.

I opened a bottle of 1996 Clarendon Hills Kangarilla Old Vines last night and it was not in the least over-ripe, gloppy, raisined, or over-extracted. It was balanced nicely on its acidity, of which there was a good amount, and reminded me of good cru Bojo with age. Went down a treat with sushi (not joking)

Good to hear! Maybe I should have aged mine more….

[markjchambers]

The OP asked about Aussie OV Grenache and no one has mentioned Torbreck Les Amis. 100 y/o vines. The 03 was amazing when I last had it 3 years ago
It was my first “Wow!” Grenache wine. Expensive but still less than half the price of Rayas.
And I don’t see how you can discuss the range of Grenache styes without mentioning SQN or Alban. The 2017 Gorgeous Victim has an amazing nose and is very approachable now. Ditto for the 2014 Alban Grenache.
My favorite Spanish Garnacha is Alto Moncayo (the mid-level). You can find it for ~$45. Try to find some 2009 or 2010.

Many people would consider these to be fruit bombs, but they really balance out with some age.

[Robert_Sand]

Thanks for all the great info! Has anyone had the Barroche Pure? It’s another 100% Grenache CdP and gets solid scores in CT. My curiosity is piqued, no idea if it is at all Rayas like in character.

Yes, I have had Pure and really enjoyed it, but have never had Rayas, so I can’t offer an opinion on how they compare.

Pure is indeed 100% Grenache, and one of their vineyards is very close ro Rayas, but not in the woods, rather in full sunshine.
It’s a fine wine wirh some similarity, but more modern and a different texture … but definitely worth tasting.
I would say Marcoux VV is slightly closer to R.
You could also try Giraud/Grenache de Pierre (also modern)…