Yes, Bordeaux 
Seriously the pricing gap between greatest, great and very good continues to widen. I buy Trapet instead of Rousseau, and Rossignol Trapet when available. Premier Crus such from Pommard and Volnay are lovely, and still relatively affordable. Do I miss the Rousseau and Roumiers. Can’t say I do; my epiphanies were Clair Dau and Trapet.
I actually think that this would make a very interesting business school case study. We have a relatively highly regulated market with a middle-man (importer/distributor) mandated by law. For whatever reason, market dynamics in one market (the US) have resulted in pricing that far outstrips those in other markets. The producer must balance the seemingly obvious choice to raise wholesale prices and redistribute production capacity toward the US to capture the excess margin being retained by the middle-man while at the same time supporting other markets that seemingly don’t support the high prices in order to maintain broad distribution and demand in case of market disruption (tariffs anyone?). The middle-man is incented to ‘meet the market’ without damaging their relationship with the producer. All-the-while, there would seem to be huge gray market opportunities if the geographic price differences referenced in the thread are real. Finally, whatever B-school professor writes this case up would seem to have an excellent shot at getting one of the many parties involved to open up a bottle in the name of a full understanding of the topic.
I am curious, what is the source of that pricing? Is that from someone at KLWM? It isn’t on their site which at that price and short supply I wouldn’t expect it to be, but I am wondering if this price was given to you by one of their staff people.
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I suppose this is why Asian housewives line up at the Louis Vuitton boutique in Paris. The company says, OK, if the price of X is 100 in Paris, then it’s 120 in Tokyo, 130 in Beijing, 110 in New York etc. But there is no limit as to how many LV bags can be made, legally or by a family in Bangkok, whereas the Coche family doesn’t make that much wine. If you have an allocation in France, you drink it.
Kermit used to sell handbags on Telegraph Avenue.He knows all about pricing strategy.
Until lately the Coche family hasn t shown much interest in this pricing question but now it seems they are on it.
Louis Vuitton and other luxury companies actually send agents around to tell housewives not to let their hubbies buy fake versions of their products. A friend of mine s wife loved this gym bag he showed me at the boutique in SF…$6000…beautiful bag, green leather outside, red leather outside. $200 perfect rendition in Bangkok. His wife would n’t let him buy the cheap version…morally wrong. The woman he showed us the bag…her husband worked for Kermit…hmmmm
Email offer by KLWM that gets sent out every year to the regular buyers of this stuff
Thank you. Wow, that’s a high tariff to remain a regular buyer!
Correct. It doesn’t make much sense for Coche to sell so cheap - maybe he’s feeling generous towards people like Kermit who supported him before he struck gold. Instead of screaming into your pillow, why don’t you collect your thoughts and explain what’s so ridiculous?
I’m confused. Is anyone being forced to buy at these prices? That would indeed be unfair.
Okay, I’m going to remove the pillow just long enough to get this out…I wouldn’t have a problem with the price if Coche was leading the price increases. But KLWM is choosing to mark up 11-12X, and Coche isn’t reaping the rewards. I’ve bought Kermit for many years. They are heavy handed in “asking” you to buy large numbers of other Kermit wines in order to get access to Coche and Raveneau. For years they have told people, if you’re loyal, you buy our products every year, we reward you. The retailers I’ve bought them through tell me they’re asked the same thing from KLWM. By the way I’ve never sold a bottle of Coche or Raveneau.
Funny enough I’ve actually received multiple messages from people in the wine industry after creating the thread who preferred not to post themselves. One wrote: “They are not following the market, this is not like DRC where the market drove the price. Now it is Kermit driving the price themselves, and it is an open secret that they are alienating customers. Over the last few years I have heard from many people on both sides of the Atlantic, who’ve become both stunned and disgusted at the prices Kermit Lynch is now asking for these wines. They also continue to ask stores and their own retail customers to buy broadly, though Kermit has now eliminated the potential profit that stores formally were able to make from these wines that justified the extra purchases. The prices Kermit Lynch is asking are now so high that many stores still have past year’s Coche on the website, because the price is too high, and over market. That would never have happened in years past. And they are doing this so they can make more than 1,000% markup. If you looked at the Corton Hospice price they are selling, you would most likely see they purchased the barrel for very little, and paid Coche a nominal fee."
The bottom line is Kermit has asked for loyalty from their customers for decades, and specifically asked their customers to buy broadly of Kermit wines, telling them they would get “reasonable” prices on their favorite wines like Raveneau and Coche, allowing loyal wine customers to purchase them even if they weren’t extremely wealthy. Coche keeps their prices low to allow their historic customers, such as friends and neighbors and businesses in Burgundy, to continue to afford the wine. Kermit Lynch Wine Merchants used to follow that same lead, giving customers that supported them for years the same consideration, but no longer. Now, Kermit Lynch is firmly telling their historic, long-term customers, stores and restaurants they couldn’t care less about them. Kermit is deciding these wines should only be for the uber-wealthy…and again Kermit Lynch is doing that not Coche…and they don’t have to do this to still earn a ridiculous profit. Also, you keep mentioning Kermit directly, he isn’t the one driving these decisions and hasn’t been involved in these types of decisions for years (when I say Kermit I mean KLWM), same applies to Coche (where Raphael is driving the decisions now).
Welp, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this game of devil’s advocate (based solely on this interaction, I’m going to guess you were rooting for the Russian hockey team at the 1980 Olympics…sorry for your loss).
If you think Kermit is treating the customers unfairly, there’s a simple solution - don’t buy. Seems straightforward to me. I’ve had very little Coche. When I have, it’s been very good. It’s not work these prices. So I don’t buy it. If Kermit has raises prices too high, the market will stop buying it too. If not…perhaps the prices aren’t too high!
Also, you do realize that the Soviet hockey team in 1980 were the socialists, yes?
Classic.
KLWM is doing the same stuff with Roulot. The retailers I know are disgusted by their shameless ploy to drastically reduce long time customers’ allocations until they start buying tons of other overpriced offerings they’re peddling. There’s smart, fair business and there’s slimy business and they have dived into the deep end.
I’m not standing up for Kermit here but I would’nt be surprised if this wasn’t coordinated effort of KM and Coche.
I’m one of those said retailers who has seen the dramatic price increases via wholesale the last few years. Allemand Reynaud just went from $185 for the 2016 vintage to $250. Roulot was basically priced to auction on the last release and Raveneau was damn close. Clape wholesale prices now meet or exceed auction in comparison to better vintages. Needless to say, my support of the KL portfolio is nearing its end. Next we can talk about what Martines is doing to Dugat-Py, Claude Dugat and Rayas. Similar pricing strategy. Time to start taking your chances at auction.
That Kermit should be in cahoots with Team Coche is an interesting one and who knows??
My thought is this: Team Kermit must know some really really rich wine nuts.
This is no different than any other importer. If you support the importer’s portfolio, you get access to the cherries. An importer, distributor or retailer can’t operate a viable business any other way. I have no expectation of having access to an importer’s cherries unless I am doing a lot of business with them.
From my experience, the market is driving the prices. I could sell my allocation ten times. There is no good reason for a retailer to be sitting on these wines. Kermit does not force Coche-Dury and the like on anyone, so a retailer can’t complain if they can’t sell them.
As mentioned up-thread, no one is forcing you or anyone else to buy Coche-Dury or anything else from Kermit Lynch. If you don’t like the prices, don’t buy the wines and stop bitching.
I am Canadian and was playing hockey at the University of Denver during the 1980 winter Olympics. I was rooting for the U.S. The Russians were so much better (as they were in the 1972 Summit Series with Canada, which Canada won only by resorting to goon tactics). The chances of the result were about one in a million. Although, I don’t understand WTF that game has to do with anything here.
Perhaps I do not understand the business, but it seems to me that there is a difference between an internet or brick and mortar retailer wildly inflating the price to what the market will bear vs. the U.S. importer doing the same. The importer has been chosen to represent the producer and usually, as I understand it, has sole rights to bring that producer’s wines into the U.S. and determine what allocations are given to various distributors (or retailers, if they are also distributors) around the country. (In WA state, I believe, retailers cannot import directly and gets their allocation from a licensed distributor who in turn gets an allocation from the U.S. importer.)
If a retailer chooses to keep the cherries and auction them or sell them online at grossly inflated prices rather than allocate them to their long term valuable customers, and if the customers are unhappy with that, then the customer can shop elsewhere. If an importer/distributor marks wines up 1000%, it is not like the customer can shop elsewhere…at least in this country. It is my understanding that they hold a monopoly, of sorts, on selling those wines in the U.S.
Yes, I know, no one forces you to buy Coche or Raveneau (or Rousseau or DRC). And yes, I know, anyone can gouge pricing on any goods they distribute and make as much profit as they can get away with. But it does seem to me that there is a difference between retailers choosing between honoring their customers’ loyalty or gouging vs. the sole US. importer gouging.
But, ultimately, I am not losing sleep over it…screw Kermit.
Right, perhaps you don’t understand the business. If an importer is pricing wine too high, the grey market will take care of that. The Coche-Dury that I see coming in through the grey market are much more expensive wholesale than what Kermit offers. The prices to which the OP refers are those offered by Kermit Lynch direct from his Berkeley retail store. The wholesale prices that distributors and retailers to which Kermit sells wholesale direct in California are such that they can take even a generous margin and still be well below the prices offered by Kermit’s retail store, and easily sell the wines. There are no consumers being hurt here, only some complaining that they cannot afford or prefer not to pay market for what has become a luxury product.
I would!
Say what you want about KLWM. It will be interesting to see what prices retailers are selling the 2017 Coche. I passed on the Corton Charlemagne this year. But did request some of the other wines which I am sure will be lower than retail. Maybe not the grey market bottles, who knows. If you ever get the chance to go to the store in Berkeley, I recommend as it shows a remarkable selection of affordable wines for those who cannot afford Roulot, Raveneau etc. I remember when Dustin told me, you need to buy Arnaud Ente, before the price went really started to jump. My allocation really dropped last year (2017) as Will said KLWM allocation was considerably lower. Kermit has done a lot for the wine consumer in America bringing in affordable and some not affordable wines.