Have wine auction lots become much more scarce....?

WINE TALK
41

Actually some huge 6 figure lots went this year.

The data comes from the various houses, WMJ, and Live Ex. There is a good quarterly write up on the wine market in the World of Fine Wine. I also personally download data from WMJ and the auction houses after every auction and perform various granular analyses.

42

I don’t know about the overall market. It might be down. I don’t play in top end Burgundy auctions.

In terms what Victor was talking about at the top I definitely have seen a trend over the last couple years and very sharply this passed year of formerly looked-passed, bargain older school labels going for premiums and ending up in bidding fights. Or labels that were often easy to find at low prices now start at premiums. Jordan Cabernets used to float around for low prices all the time. 20+ yr old examples frequently go for $80+ now.

Cynical me thinks a lot of these will end up back in the market over the next couple years when many of the newer buyers decide they are not as enamored with the older, lower rung wines as many of us are. At least I kind of hope so. This sudden interest is perplexing.

43

There are wines, but you might have to dive in parts of the dumpster where I dwell.

44

Right… all those folks who earn less than the $75k income limit to qualify for the second stimulus check were plowing that money into wine at auction rather than, say, rent. Or food.

1 Like
45

Hahaha [thankyou.gif]

46

A couple of different thoughts here, Tim. First, I’ve never liked bidding against friends or board members, but most handles aren’t as obvious as mine (I’m a Winebid buyer from way back), so I never know who I’m bidding against these days except for a few old friends. I always figure there’s no reason to drive up the price for people I know.

Of course if people are looking for “prestige” bottles, I’m probably not bidding against them…with the occasional exception of birth year bottles for people, I usually look for the good values, obscure regions/producers, and “over the hill” (at least that’s what they think neener ) bottles. I don’t chase things that get very expensive, and will not overpay compared to retail, as I always factor in commission and an “auction discount” since you know a certain percentage of bottles are going to be corked or not pristine and you have no recourse for those at auction.

And while I think you might be correct about a few people having the ability to drive up pricing on a few select bottles or producers, you have to remember that WB is a very small percentage of the overall wine geek market…maybe 1%? There are a lot more people who use auction (and retail) sites who don’t post here or on any wine board, for a myriad of reasons.

47

https://www.klwines.com/Auction/Bidding/AuctionBidDetail.aspx?sku=1519027&searchId=&searchServiceName=&searchRank=

this is pretty insane…

48

Except for WB and KL I have been willing avoid the headaches and thrills of auctions and just deal with retail. Between WB , KL and my top 3-5 retailers I have no trouble depleting my wine budget. The exception is when I get an alert of something on my alert list. I no longer have to spend time reviewing catalogs.

If I was still receiving paper catalogs it might be different, they were great (expensive) reading material.

49

this is a pretty cultish wine - though the current level of this sale puts it way above the $478/bottle (inc bp) it fetched back in Sept at HDH.

50

I used to buy a lot of old Bordeaux from the low-profile producers like Les Ormes de Pez, Lascombes, Prieure-Lichine from the 60’s to 80’s for $40 - $85 on wined back a few years ago. Prices are much higher now and I rarely find something that I “must have” there like I used to in the past.

51

i know the wines very well and was a big fan when it was possible to buy as much as one wanted <$100. i believe the 15 vosne village was around $325 retail from kermit, which was about double the prior releases.

52

Is this as a casual observer interested in figures or as someone in the business?

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53

Hey, don’t judge. [cheers.gif]

54

I am not in the business, I just really like markets, data and analysis (and while my goal is not wine investment, I approach my purchase of wine from a risk and cost management perspective)

55

Stunning. Pichon Lalande 1990, $310.

56

Agree

57

You can ask whatever you like, but it is meaningless if there are no bidders.

58

Seemed like there was even less product up on WineBid this week as well. At least not the stuff that I am looking for. And the pricing, like on that Lalande, are crazy. Not a criticism of WineBid, a platform that I like, more commentary on the market itself.

59

You have made my point, as the current bid is $310.

60

Can you give an example of a purchase, and the reasoning behind it?