Help build a new collection

[K_F_o_l_e_y]

You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they’re massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you’ll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that “earthy” descriptor actually referred to…or at least you’ll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You’ll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife’s car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you’ll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won’t know what people mean when they say “oh that’s classic Pauillac” and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you’ll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you’ll want something light. You’ll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You’ll start talking about “this interesting tanat” and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn’t too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you’ll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You’ll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don’t have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You’ll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.

That is the second most funny thing I’ve evah read on this board.

[Jason_T]

It was pretty epic. I went from chuckle to all-in chortle over the Pauillac comment. Though no mention of Riesling?!?!?!

[Howard_Cooper]

Though no mention of Riesling?!?!?!

Read post 27

[Howard_Cooper]

For Bordeaux, there is a great thread on traditional vs. modern Bordeaux. Look at the top of the board on hall of fame threads for a link. There also is a great thread linked there on off the beaten path Burgundy.

[Dinesh_Goyal]

Thank you everyone.

1. Have signed up for Mailing lists ya Crush, Flatiron wines and chamber st
2. Planning to attend Rieslingfeier, Reboule Du Rhône, La Paulee and Union of Grand Crus Bordeaux tasting events
3. Really like the idea of offline meet-ups that are posted on Wine Berserker
4. Have almost finalized the storage at Domaine. Michael Mahle has been great (as has been Marc at MWC).

[jon_leifer]

Welcome aboard, Dinesh, hope you come to enjoy the food and wine scene in NYC and that your cellar will become everything you want it to be…Lot of good points made in this thread, wish i had this resource available to me when I started my wine journey roughly 60 years ago…Wd like to make one suggestion, while pursuing your cellar treasures, please don’t overlook buying some wines for everyday drinking and enjoyment

[D_Mowe]

My advice is not to go out and buy 600 bottles of wine (50 cases) based on your current preferences. Those preferences are likely to change over time and you could be stuck with a bunch of stuff you don’t like five years from now. Just buy things you like, taste other stuff, etc. And certainly don’t buy large amounts of stuff that doesn’t age well. Just build slowly!

This advice is spot on!! Tastes change. I have about 1200 or so bottles in my cellar of which 3-400 I don’t really care to drink anymore. Build slowly…

[Dinesh_Goyal]

Thank you all.

Traditional vs modern Bordeaux, combined with threads on 2015 & 2016 Bordeaux we’re very helpful.

Could you please point me to any thread on burgundies under $100?

Thanks a ton

[Tom_Reddick]

2. I also don’t think I specified my taste preferences quite accurately. What I really meant was that I am not a fan of over-ripe, over oaky wines. Eg there is very little of Barossa Shiraz that we have really loved. On the other hand a big fan of lot of Victoria (AU) and Tasmanian Pinot. Most of these labels wouldn’t be imported to the US (Ashton Hills, Tolpuddle, Mayer, By Farr).

Just one thought if I may. Given that your experience is largely limited to one particular region, your definition of certain terms may widely vary with those others- even beyond personal differences. You state in the above quote that you are not a fan of over-ripe, over oaky wines, but then 2 points later in your list I see a number of wines and a couple of specific vintages which I and many others would personally consider over-ripe or overly oaked. As you expand your experience with those regions, I expect you will find these wines to be on the riper and oakier side. You may still like them as compared to Australian wines- but you may well find you do not once you have a sense of the broader spectrum of what is out there.

Going to events in NYC will be a good thing, but keep in mind too that you can start right now on an even smaller scale and at no charge. In fact, within Manhattan alone I think it is safe to say that you could taste at least 10 wines a week at no charge courtesy of the fact many top retailers offer regular tastings of a handful of wines free to the public. And, on occasion, for a fee you can attend something really special. On October 24th, for example, Chambers Street is hosting a private tasting of 45+ wines from Chianti with Jancis Robinson in attendance. The fee includes some nice perks too- a tasting glass and a year’s subscription to her publication. That should be an incredible evening.

Give yourself 3 months, and attend as many of such tastings as you can- and even if you only make 1 a week- after 3 months you should have tasting notes for at least 50-60 wines (well over 100 if you can manage 2 tastings a week.) Side bonus- if you come across something you really like, then you can usually buy it right then and there in the store. And it is not unheard of for wines included in the tasting to be at a slight discount on the date of the tasting to encourage sales.

As for specifics- I noted on your list that you have Robert Mondavi To Kalon in the fancy section, and I presume you mean the To Kalon Reserve. The 2015 was just released, and I had the fortune to get my hands on a bottle earlier this year which I placed in a tasting of various higher end CA wines. The 2015 is absolutely magnificent, and one of the most endearing Cabernets I have had in quite some time. If you are itching to do a little buying early on (we all were at that stage- and still are at all times to some extent), that is the wine I would go buy now. It is not exactly a small production wine, but given how good it is this year (with critical reviews to match), it would be wise to get what you want fairly early while it is still readily available.

[Nathan_Smyth]

Could you please point me to any thread on burgundies under $100?

Don’t waste your time.

It’s a fool’s errand [and has been for about a decade now].

That’s why I linked you to the 2013 Agostino Pieri Brunello - it’s the first $50 fine wine which scratched the itch in forever.

Mediocre red burgundy will cost you $300 to $500 now, and the very worst of the best stuff starts at about $1200.

BTW, I don’t think that you can even get passable WHITE burgundy for less than $100 anymore.

At least not around here.

If you want to drink well for $100, then get yourself a Zardetto Prosecco for openers, and a 2013 Pieri Brunello for your main dish, and a Paolo Saracco Moscato d’Asti for dessert, and you’ll still have just a little change in your pocket at the end of the day.

[Dennis_Borczon]

You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they’re massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you’ll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that “earthy” descriptor actually referred to…or at least you’ll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You’ll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife’s car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you’ll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won’t know what people mean when they say “oh that’s classic Pauillac” and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you’ll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you’ll want something light. You’ll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You’ll start talking about “this interesting tanat” and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn’t too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you’ll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You’ll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don’t have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You’ll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.

That is the second most funny thing I’ve evah read on this board.

This isn’t funny. This is a biography of my years collecting wine.

[Marcu_Stanley]

It would be in particular good to get some recommendations for domestic Cabernets under $50 and Bordeaux under $100. Bordeaux in particular I feel I understand very little of and have a prejudice that it is way overpriced. However recently tried a tasting of various labels offered by Leoville Las Case and enjoyed it immensely.

Bordeaux is probably the region that offers the best bargains in fine, age-able wine right now. Bordeaux QPR cannot be beat for ageable complex reds (except perhaps for Rioja if you like that style, but not all of us do).

Go on, fight me.

[Robert_M_yers]

Lots of advice (and good) here, but I’m concerned about how the universe might react if one doesn’t follow the all roads lead to burgundy path. If he starts there, what road does he take to get out? Is it possible to stay there for your whole life and never see the world? do you want to be on your deathbed wishing you had tried Caymus?

K John is on the money for many of us, but that path is there and familiar to us for a reason I’d think, although I’m not wise enough to know why. So I’d follow nature’s path, but at the same time build a second cellar of classic age worthy wines you have no interest in drinking now. Or just don’t cellar wines that you think you like now, buy all your new world wines as you go. It may sound ridiculous, but unless your an outlier, an anomaly, you are going to be so happy in 20 years and have had the best of both worlds, while not having to spend the next 20 years catching up. If your in wine for life, you really need a wine 401k and they don’t work as well if you start at 40.

[Dinesh_Goyal]

Could you please point me to any thread on burgundies under $100?

Don’t waste your time.

It’s a fool’s errand [and has been for about a decade now].

That’s why I linked you to the 2013 Agostino Pieri Brunello - it’s the first $50 fine wine which scratched the itch in forever.

Mediocre red burgundy will cost you $300 to $500 now, and the very worst of the best stuff starts at about $1200.

BTW, I don’t think that you can even get passable WHITE burgundy for less than $100 anymore.

At least not around here.

If you want to drink well for $100, then get yourself a Zardetto Prosecco for openers, and a 2013 Pieri Brunello for your main dish, and a Paolo Saracco Moscato d’Asti for dessert, and you’ll still have just a little change in your pocket at the end of the day.

That’s what it seems like. And I have had some really good < $50 USD Aussie Pinot, most of which never gets imported to US (or is 2x the price). So I guess I will just stick with California/ Oregon/ WS pinot.

[Nathan_Smyth]

That’s what it seems like. And I have had some really good < $50 USD Aussie Pinot, most of which never gets imported to US (or is 2x the price). So I guess I will just stick with California/ Oregon/ WS pinot.

Which is why I’m saying that if you want to throw $100 at a Pinot Noir, then look for an Arcadian from the late 1990s or early 2000s.

You’ll never find a $100 Pinot from Burgundy which can come close to an Arcadian with bottle age.

By the way, judging from what you’ve indicated you enjoy so far, among recent releases, you might look for the 2015 Walter Hansel Cahill Lane Pinot [not to be confused with the Chardonnay from the same vineyard]. Within the context of what it is - a thick, chewy, dark, brooding Pinot - it’s quite elegant.

[Howard_Cooper]

That’s what it seems like. And I have had some really good < $50 USD Aussie Pinot, most of which never gets imported to US (or is 2x the price). So I guess I will just stick with California/ Oregon/ WS pinot.

I drink under $50 Burgundy all the time and I think the best of them put California/Oregon/WS pinot to shame. I pointed you to a thread full of such wines. If you want to try what is really special in that price range, read the thread. If not, your loss.

[Shan_A]

Bordeaux is probably the region that offers the best bargains in fine, age-able wine right now. Bordeaux QPR cannot be beat for ageable complex reds (except perhaps for Rioja if you like that style, but not all of us do).

I think its a toss up between Bordeaux and Nebbiolo. Both have ageable wines for $50 bucks on release and top quartile producers available for $200. Both have aged examples available at discount to new release prices. For me I think there is greater value in $60 Nebbiolo than $60 Bordeaux, so I edge out to Nebbiolo.

[Jay_Miller]

Jay Miller, thanks a lot.

Yes have read a few threads on storage and based on that shortlisted Manhattan Wine company and Domaine. Both Marc and Michael have been super responsive.

MWC has a waiting list at the moment. So might go with Domaine.

Yes, MWC filled up when Chelsea Wine Storage tripled their prices. I think MWC is building out some more storage but I don’t know what the timetable might be.

[Marcu_Stanley]

You’ll never find a $100 Pinot from Burgundy which can come close to an Arcadian with bottle age.

Never had aged Arcadian, but I’ve had plenty of U.S. pinot and I strongly doubt this is true. You can still find excellent Le Corton reds for $100 or less from good years, I would wager that with age they would beat any U.S. pinot.

[Dinesh_Goyal]

Hey guys

I wanted to tell you that you all, and the wider community that’s contributed previously, have been amazing. You have helped me form a rough idea of how I want to go about it.

I am sure the plan will evolve as I continue to come up the learning curve but broadly speaking here is what it looks like

1. Signed up for newsletters of Morrell, Chambers, Crush, Flatiron & Millesima - I plan to attend as many of the tastings as I can

2. Attend a few of the wine shows over the winter: La paulee, UGC etc

3. Have signed up for the mailing lists at MacDonald, Cirq, SQN, Myriad, Saxum, Dunn, Outpost, Rivers Marie, Scarecrow & Philips Togni. By the time I get the opportunity to buy some of these wines, I should have a better idea of which of these I might like.

4. Signed up for storage at Domaine

5. I just couldn’t wait to start ordering until I got to NY and ordered a case of Tor Cimarossa. That’s a wine I have had previously and liked a lot.

6. Given how much I like Pinot, have contacted Andy at Northwest wines and putting together a couple of cases of Oregon Pinot (Cameron Clos, Goodfellow, Arterberry, Walter Scott, Cristom etc)

So while I have slowed down thanks to some great advice, I am feeling happy with the progress .

One thing that’s not part of the rationale plan - I am on the fence about ordering a few cases of Bordeaux. I had recently tried LLC wines and loved it. Idea is to forget about it for the next 15-20 years. I have been exchanging a few emails with Michael Peltier at Millesemia, who has been amazingly helpful. I am still contemplating this but the idea would be to order a case each of 2014 Leoville Las Cases and 2016 Lynch Bages, Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande and Leoville Poyferre. As per my other post I might just hold off until I get to NYC and try a few of the Bordeaux wines from 96/00/03 vintages and confirm that I indeed love these wines.