We all have different experiences so I don’t mean to tell you that you’re wrong here, but the idea that there’s some regular availability of wines under $40 that are produced from regenerative agriculture is…well, not my experience. I’d encourage you to do your own research about the work Hiyu is doing with its land.
Again, as I posted above, I’m not saying the way Hiyu does things is better than anyone else. What I am saying is that I see very clearly that when I spend money on their wines, it goes back into the farming as opposed to marketing campaigns or anything else. They’re far from the only producer who does this, obviously. I bring this up because, again as I posted above, you have to support wineries like this if you want to see more of them. Their experimentation in the vineyards more often than not produces intensely aromatic and delicious wines in my experience–even if some wines miss the mark.
I think I view it maybe less as “columbia gorge dollars” and more as “support for green movement dollars”. like maybe those would end up being dollars I donated, but with that who knows where those dollars really go, with Hiyu I know exactly who and where they go and can even go check on the place myself if I want with a visit. I also get a bottle of wine as a bonus.
still 93 points though.
I agree with you in some respects. we are very lucky that we are buying wine in a time where there is clear evidence of farming with a conscience from a lot of winemakers. at least far more than 30 years ago. there are still several levels for that (as you know), and the strata to which Nate and Hiyu take it is one step past the everyday biodynamic that most winemakers practice, with no till, no mowing, interspersed plantings, etc. it is legitimately healthiest for the soil as far as my research can find. and there are very few taking it this far (Mimi Casteel of Hopewell/Bethel Heights does as well, and for comparison Hopewell is like 4th-5th leaf pinot selling for $80/bottle).
I think the people who are supporting Hiyu still have high expectations from the $40-80 wines that they make as well. but I think something Nate says in his interview with Viticole stuck with me (Mimi says something similar in her IDTT episode as well). He was talking about vineyard yields and made a comment that with how they farm, vineyard yields in terms of tonnage of fruit is important, but part of the yield thats harder to measure comes in the form of diversity in the vineyard. its not DIRECTLY the same as what we get when our money goes to a project like Hiyu, but I view it with a similar idea. When I buy a $60 bottle of Hiyu, I get a bottle of wine, but also helping to make a project viable that I hope pushes more people to farm as they do. kind of the “supportive donor” idea you mentioned, with the bonus of wines that by and large ive enjoyed drinking so far. I also tend to buy far more wine from biodynamic and organic producers as well, partly because I like the philosophy and partly because I think the philosophy tends to just make wines that I really enjoy drinking!
I gotta say I love this though, its exactly why I started the thread. I pictured these wines as kind of divisive, and thats exactly what we’ve got. to be sure, no one is right or wrong in what they think about them. thats what makes it an interesting discussion for me. its also part of why I like to open them. They definitely cause a strong response when tasted.
I opened this thread thinking it was about a sake. At least I learned a new term: “regenerative agriculture/principals” Is that like taking biodynamics to 11? Not trying to be cute but is this something beyond BD?
Should also clarify: I don’t mean to shame anyone who chooses not to spend their money on Hiyu or anyone who doesn’t enjoy the wines. That’s more than fair! Just sharing why I enjoy supporting their endeavor.
it is actually. most “regenerative” farmers don’t do any plowing or tilling, don’t do any mowing, often even encourage the growth of other species of plants and animals within the vineyard. the interview with Nate posted above has a pretty good description, but I think the very best info about it is in the recent IDTT episode with Mimi Casteel “Mimi Casteel thinks your sustainability sucks”
Matt - glad you posted on Hiyu as well despite my differing view on the wines. Glad to see some have strong interest in the wines. I’m sure everyone spends more on certain items (wine or otherwise) to support people/businesses/causes they want to support, which is laudable, especially in these tough times.
I can somewhat understand the high prices for those wines that come from the farm, but their prices are IMO unreasonably high (based on how I perceive the wines) for wines from other vineyards where as I understand it Hiyu is not farming (Atavus Vineyard and some other vineyards in the Columbia Valley AVA). Happy to be proven wrong on that point. Even if they are handling the farming at those vineyards, they are leasing established vineyards, so nowhere near the same costs as required to establish the farm’s vineyards. Which makes the high prices for those wines more perplexing IMO.
I applaud Hiyu’s farming efforts and overall concept, but I’ve always struggled with paying 2-3 x what Analemma was charging for Atavus wines when Analemma engaged in sustainable/organic/biodynamic farming and IMO their wines were plain better. Adrian did remind me how much I enjoyed their cider and would buy more of that, even though priced at a premium to other well made organic/biodynamic ciders from OR.
Despite my less than enthusiastic response to the wine in the bottle, I highly encourage anyone visiting the Hood River area to go visit and taste for themselves. It is a fun tasting experience and the wines may appeal to you. The (weekly?) wine dinners they hold in the spring, summer and early fall sound great (and they’ve been highly recommended to me by locals) as long as you’re not a vegan.
I tasted there maybe two years ago and joined a little later. This is now my only wine club membership.
The wines have gotten consistently better with each release. That said, as someone mentioned above, there are hits and misses.
Hiyu is a relatively original project that offers interesting, varied wines at actually somewhat reasonable prices if procured through their club. I’m grandfathered into their lowest tier at an old price of $38/mo for one bottle, shipping included. I find this good value.
Love Bethel Heights! But this is my point…there just aren’t many producers here in the U.S. going to these kinds of lengths in their farming while being able to offer wines for less than $50. So, when I find them, I want to make sure they have by monetary support so that others may follow suit.
I definitely get your point on that. for me, the Hiyu wines make it this way occasionally and the Analemmas don’t, so its an easy choice. and the mean price ive paid for the Hiyu/Smockshops wines is more like $45. definitely agree that I would more happily pay the premium for Hiyu farm wine vs Tzum or Smockshop though as well.
does Bethel have the same vineyard practices across all of their vineyards? I know the priciest bottlings are because its some of the oldest vines in the valley, but there’s so much difference between that and their estate bottling price I wasn’t sure if there are other differences at play as well? but I know they are more sustainable than most!
right?? the actual book that started the popularity of the idea: “One Straw Revolution” literally calls it “do nothing farming”.
I can get behind that!
thats a no brainer price to me. would do that all day long
Herein lies the problem. How, as a consumer with 1000s of options, am I to keep track of which individual wines are Salmon Safe or LIVE or Deep Roots or Biodynamic or Organic or Sustainable or Regenerative or whatever?
I’ve probably done more OR Pinot leg work than most non-professionals and have decided that I like Bethel Heights (as well as dozens of other OR producers). I like Mimi, Ben and their operation. I enjoy the wines and have had many excellent bottles (some cellared for 15+ years) at what i deem to be “reasonable prices”. Their vineyards and viticulture strike me as “sustainable enough”. YMMV.
makes sense to me. ive never explored past the “estate” bottling but if the others have your approval Im gonna have to look harder for them. old vines are my jam!
Look at these assholes planting non-native grape species and keeping the land from reverting back into a forest structure! It’s like they haven’t even heard of ecological succession. They should be harvesting native grapes from the canopy as non-timber forest products. /s
If you are using environmentalism as sanctimonious marketing, you are doing it wrong. If you aren’t doing any canopy management, pruning, dropping green and diseased fruit, you are probably spreading disease and making gross wine too. I’d imagine the wine is expensive because a great majority of fruit can’t make it through a sorting table and ends up in compost bins, not bottles (or it does and that is the fart taste noted above). Novelty isn’t always good or innovative. I feel like I’m probably their target audience, and I just want to laugh at them.
How many experiences do you have, directly, with their wines? I ask because the tone of this response feels just as sanctimonious as the marketing strategies (which aren’t being used here) that you loath.
im curious, because you sound like you invest in wines and winemakers who practice sustainable agriculture, do you have any experience with wines from Mimi Casteel? Hope Well, Lingua Franca’s Mimis Mind, and Bethel Heights are all wines she has a hand in
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