True - there’s very few people I know who’ve made a lot of money ITB. If you’re passionate about it and happy to make a reasonable living then go for it. If money is your driving force then forget it.
This. And sometimes I do genuinely forget how much money some people on this board have. We’re all motivated by different things, and I think it can be hard, when people ask us for advice, to base our advice on their values rather than ours.
My first career was as a geologist. In my early 20s I saw my friends going into the oil business and making $120k starting, and I couldn’t for the life of me understand why, because I found petroleum geology so boring, but (a) some people actually love it, and (b) for some of these people having a lot of money was really important and their job was just the way to pay for the other things they really wanted in life, like international travel and a large home for their family and no stress about college debt. Similarly, they couldn’t understand why I wanted to make $35k a year for six years in grad school researching how volcanoes work - “how do you even pay rent???” I am happiest when my work is something I love - yeah there are some financial stresses in my life but, for me, personally, those are far lower than the stresses I would feel from having a job I didn’t love.
So I think the first thing to establish when anyone asks you about a big career change, whatever the from- and to-careers are, is what their priorities and values are, because I might give completely different advice to two different people based on that.
I’ve had a few associates work in wine retail or tasting rooms as a part time / active+early retirement kind of hobby. They don’t need benefits, are not all that motivated by the (limited) money, and are enthusiastic about the job, since it doesn’t feel like ‘work’ to them.
That might be a gateway.
Sometimes the job one wants isn’t available instantly, and there will be multiple stepping stones to get there. Get in the industry somewhere, start networking, and hopefully hustle/drive/talent will get noticed and more opportunities will open up.
Ian,
Does there reach a point in the business where it becomes politicized in some way? Not Governmental politics, but maybe higher in the industry? If so, what are some of the challenges that some may encounter?
Not that I have personally encountered. What I do find is that there are “bubbles” that get created, and it’s hard to know you are in one. If you work for a company that shields its employees and doesn’t look to make allies in the industry, be weary. There is no reason you shouldn’t be connected to key players in the business. It only helps. For instance, my boss is at the forefront of the tariff issue, and has made allies with Southern and Total Wine in the process. He even joked with me that it’s crazy times when that happens, but it’s such a dire situation that we face that he knows it’s best for all.
If you are rising in the business, it’s important to know people who are forward thinking and want to do more than just geek out about wine.
Couldn’t agree more Ben.
Very good point. I tell them that if they really really love it and really really enjoy the philosophy and underpinings and theory of law, then they should go for it because it is the greatest profession they could choose, but if they just want a job and today it’s being lawyer and maybe tomorrow it’s selling shoes, forget it. It’s way too hard and way too much work to get good at, and if you are not prepared to put in the time, it really sucks. A lot like what people said above.
PS - a bunch of friends who have asked me to talk to their kids came to me later and said. “WTF did you do? Now s/he wants to do X instead.” I responded that I told the kid the truth, saved them a lot of tuition and saved their kid from a lifetime of hating their job.
Ask them if there’s any history of alcoholism in the family. If so, they should steer clear
Having made the transition from another industry and because (in addition to my partnership in Walter Scott) I do Winery and Vineyard Merger & Acquisition work for a living, I get asked this frequently.
My response is twofold, and probably applicable to many professions:
-
Why are you interested in the wine industry? Often people can’t articulate why.
-
I suggest people do some homework; reach out to people and network. Speaking with those who have gone down a similar path can be enlightening and the more people one connects with, the better they can understand the realities of what they are contemplating.
Some think, “I’ve reached the pinnacle as a (insert profession) , the wine business will easy”. That usually doesn’t work out very well.
- Start with the crappiest crap job in the industry and learn the nuts and bolts from the bottom up. At each step, if you still love what you are doing and love the industry, keep going!
Or…
- Go do something different and get filthy rich, then buy a vanity project winery and get interviewed by Wine Spectator about your lifelong love of wine and how you are now a winemaker.
That sounds cynical, but I am being sincere.
I worked in wholesale sales for 6 years with 2 companies. Make sure the sales managers and company have a good reputation in the market. In both instances I was held back by previous bad behaviors of others within the companies. Getting thrown out of stores is not cool. I swam hard upstream and overcame many obstacles while others were insurmountable.
The pay was not great. I still learned a lot about wine and winemaking, and the samples and perks helped too. It was a fulfillment of a long time goal and I am glad for the experience.
Jay - as Victor said, you gave them the best advice already.
Then they need to decide what part of the business interests them. It sounds like they have no idea at all because people don’t typically decide to “get into” the business without some idea of what they want to do. Working in a vineyard is not the same as keeping inventory in a store.
The main thing I would tell them is that it’s a business, not a hobby. Unless they’re independently wealthy, they need to get over the idea of visiting wineries and talking about wine all day. That’s the smallest part of it. The rest of it is about moving product.
It’s like any other business.
The product that moves may not be the product they particularly love. More importantly, there are plenty of other people trying to move their own products and they’re not all nice people. Some are wonderful people. Others will bribe and coerce and cut you out if they have a chance.
Finally, there are rules and laws covering every part of the business, and they need to be aware of what applies to them.
If the person is young and wants to take a shot, suggest that they volunteer somewhere, maybe out on Long Island at a winery or at a local store. Either volunteer or take an entry level job. That in fact is one of the obstacles - wine is like fashion and publishing in that people will take pennies just to “get into” the business.
And I wouldn’t worry about the certifications and diplomas and all that other stuff - those are more ways to spend your money and as I’ve said before, other than people working in the field or making wine, the people I know who know most about wine learned it on the job.
In the end, if they want to do it, maybe the best advice is to tell them to be realistic about it and then just go for it. Wish them luck.
There is an option 2A:
2A) - Do something different and get financially secure
- Explore your passion for wine and get to know people in the industry
- Find a young person(s) in the industry you connect with and believe in, with brains, energy, talent and passion
- Partner with with them and invest time and money in a shared dream to build something you believe in
2A does not offer the same level of flamboyant ego gratification as 2, but the investment required isn’t necessarily as large as one might think and you may create a very real, authentic, gratifying experience.
Mixing business with hobby is like confusing the food bowl versus the litter box.
Jay- Make them watch this. Simply brilliant discussion.
I think the wine industry is a tough nut to crack. It’s a very appealing hobby, but the good jobs in it are few and far between. Making wine is tough work, and the chances to be a top chef du cave or becoming the head winemaker at a serious chateaux are slim; selling wine is not that much fun unless you really hit the high end and have a lot of success; sommeliering can be awesome but behind the cool bits are a lot of late nights and long shifts on your feet in a restaurant.
However, innovation is not impossible. There were no specialty finance companies devoted to the wine trade when I started 8 years ago. Nearly a decade into it, the opportunities this path have afforded me seem impossible. It’s far more lucrative than anything else I could have done with probably 20% the time requirement. So yes, it’s a tough puzzle to solve, but there are ways to succeed. As Ian said, actual business sense is the thing in the shortest supply.
I believe the most helpful thing for someone who wants to just “get into” the industry is to be gently probative; if their desire is vague enough that they don’t have a specific goal in mind–being a winemaker, being a sommelier, etc.–then that likely means that they don’t have the passion for any specific job necessary to yield success.