How would we rate 1982 Bordeaux if they were released today?

[Jeff_Leve]

Should the youngsters do that with 2016?

Not at current prices.

I don’t agree. We each have our price point. So if you think a wine is too much money, I get that.

What wines sold for almost 40 years ago has zero relevance.

IMO, with the exception of the First Growths and a handful of the top Right Bank wines, The best current Bordeaux remains priced competitively priced when compared to the top wines from any wine region.

Frankly, it’s cheap when compared to California and Burgundy.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Should the youngsters do that with 2016?

Not at current prices.

I don’t agree. We each have our price point. So if you think a wine is too much money, I get that.

What wines sold for almost 40 years ago has zero relevance.

IMO, with the exception of the First Growths and a handful of the top Right Bank wines, The best current Bordeaux remains priced competitively priced when compared to the top wines from any wine region.

Frankly, it’s cheap when compared to California and Burgundy.

It’s a mixed bag, some 2016s are pretty expensive, but many are still quite attractive. I promised myself not to buy any and still fell prey. And remain more tempted. I like this vintage very much.

[J_D_o_v_e]

I took a second mortgage on my home to buy ‘82 Bordeaux and bought almost 100 cases. They have provided me with 40 years of drinking pleasure, with more to go. Couldn’t ask for anything more.

While I’ve never done that, there’s merit in placing really big bets when you know a vintage is special.

[Howard_Cooper]

As the OP, I did not want to say much until a few people had weighed in.

It is interesting that Parker got all the credit for “discovering” 1982 Bordeaux. He certainly took credit for it, and it kick started his brand. But that was not the case. The Brits certainly knew about,the Bordelais were really excited by it, as were merchants in the US. The only exceptions were Robert Finnigan and a slightly less warm response from Terry Robards, who said the vintage was indeed superb, but felt the premium for the wines was too high when you could still buy 1981 for so much less.

As for the wines, I think they differ from the modern vintages in two major respects, alcohol and acidity. Alcohol was by comparison low, most wines hovering around the 13 degrees though a little bit higher on the Right Bank. Second the wines were balanced, the acidity clear if a little lower than usual, and the wines were fresh from the get go.

It was certainly a ripe vintage, and this is where the conflation seems to have occurred. Particularly as Parker kept using the example of the 1947 Cheval, which has always been the poster child for those who like warm wines.

I have had this five times. The first one doesn’t count, a Van der Muelen bottling that smelled and tasted of skunk. The other four along with other Parker greatest wines of the last century, Latour a Pomerol 1961, Lafleur 1975 and 1979 were not to my taste. Soft, pruney and relatively simple.

The 1982 wines have aged beautifully, and I get none of that pruniness from any of the wines. As it was my first vintage I bought in any depth (the same can be said for a few of us) I have three bottles left from my original purchase. We were lucky, and I also thank Parker, who got it totally right, and whose enthusiasm made me buy.

I remember after reading Parker about 1982s, I found an issue of Decanter at a magazine store that reviewed the 1982s. Cannot remember who wrote the article but was one of the big English guys at the time. They were very high on the vintage and liked pretty much the same wines as Parker. Gave me a lot of confidence to buy.

And the vintage I sometimes find pruny is 2009, not 1982.

[Jim_F]

As the OP, I did not want to say much until a few people had weighed in.

It is interesting that Parker got all the credit for “discovering” 1982 Bordeaux. He certainly took credit for it, and it kick started his brand. But that was not the case. The Brits certainly knew about,the Bordelais were really excited by it, as were merchants in the US. The only exceptions were Robert Finnigan and a slightly less warm response from Terry Robards, who said the vintage was indeed superb, but felt the premium for the wines was too high when you could still buy 1981 for so much less.

As for the wines, I think they differ from the modern vintages in two major respects, alcohol and acidity. Alcohol was by comparison low, most wines hovering around the 13 degrees though a little bit higher on the Right Bank. Second the wines were balanced, the acidity clear if a little lower than usual, and the wines were fresh from the get go.

It was certainly a ripe vintage, and this is where the conflation seems to have occurred. Particularly as Parker kept using the example of the 1947 Cheval, which has always been the poster child for those who like warm wines.

I have had this five times. The first one doesn’t count, a Van der Muelen bottling that smelled and tasted of skunk. The other four along with other Parker greatest wines of the last century, Latour a Pomerol 1961, Lafleur 1975 and 1979 were not to my taste. Soft, pruney and relatively simple.

The 1982 wines have aged beautifully, and I get none of that pruniness from any of the wines. As it was my first vintage I bought in any depth (the same can be said for a few of us) I have three bottles left from my original purchase. We were lucky, and I also thank Parker, who got it totally right, and whose enthusiasm made me buy.

I was later into the game, having discovered bdx with the ‘85 vintage. But from what I have tasted and drank, the highs were pretty damned high…some mind-boggling-so. So I would rate the vintage high.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Not at current prices.

I don’t agree. We each have our price point. So if you think a wine is too much money, I get that.

What wines sold for almost 40 years ago has zero relevance.

IMO, with the exception of the First Growths and a handful of the top Right Bank wines, The best current Bordeaux remains priced competitively priced when compared to the top wines from any wine region.

Frankly, it’s cheap when compared to California and Burgundy.

It’s a mixed bag, some 2016s are pretty expensive, but many are still quite attractive. I promised myself not to buy any and still fell prey. And remain more tempted. I like this vintage very much.

As an investment, probably not. You are never going to see the same returns as you did with the 1982s. You may see some gain, but I doubt whether you will get more than putting money into stocks.

I will write about futures, as 2016s have entered the secondary market. But some of it is relevant.


There are a few good reasons to buy futures.

1. You know that the wines have never been mistreated.
2. You can choose formats. I like both half bottles and magnums, which cost about the same as a future, but have a significant premium in the secondary market.
3. You can usually find limited production wines more easily.

Downside
Cost: opportunity cost plus the hard costs of storage insurance etc.
Your vendor may go out of business, in which case you have no comeback.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Mark, I’m just talking about wine to drink. I have never bought wine as an investment, and hope to drink all that I have. Viewed in that light, 2016 seems like a major buy vintage.

[Jon_H]

I recently bought a 1982 Beychevelle and a 1982 Chevalier. CT reviews indicate the Beychevelle is in a great spot and it doesn’t seem to be declining (yet). Also according to CT, I should drink the Chevalier sooner rather than later.

The DDC suffered hail damage in 1982, and every bottle I have tried was undrinkable. Pity, this was normally a great era for them.

I have over the years had so many great wines from the vintage. The First Growths are superb, and LMHB is of the same quality. In principle, it is hard to go wrong in terms of winemaking, but we are talking about forty year old wines, so some of the bottles may be problematic.

Interesting… that’s not consistent with recent CT reviews (I don’t mean to imply you are wrong). I wonder if maybe the wine has aged to a point where tertiary notes improved the wine (??). I suppose I will find out soon enough. Thanks for the feedback though, I will keep in mind when I drink it.

[M.Kaplan]

I took a second mortgage on my home to buy ‘82 Bordeaux and bought almost 100 cases. They have provided me with 40 years of drinking pleasure, with more to go. Couldn’t ask for anything more.

While I’ve never done that, there’s merit in placing really big bets when you know a vintage is special.

I don’t recommend taking on long term debt to buy perishables, but it worked out. $20-25K bought a ton of the very best ‘82s at true futures pricing at a time when the franc was historically weak vs the dollar. In retrospect, I was lucky rather than good.

[D_HEIN]

Mark,

Very interesting perspective! Only time will tell, but, this broad base is probably unmatched.

My 1982 favorites, with some not mature yet:

Bon Pasteur
Calon Segur
Cos d’Estournel
Ducru Beaucaillou
Grand Puy Lacoste
Gruaud Larose
Haut Brion
La Tour Haut-Brion
Lafite Rothschild
Lafleur
L’Arrosee
Latour
Le Gay
Le Pin
Leoville Las Cases
Leoville Poyferre
L’Evangile
Margaux
Mission Haut Brion
Mouton Rothschild
Pichon Lalande
Talbot

Based on knowledge, viticulture, wine making, equipment and technology, then and now…NONE!

[Jeremy_C]

Mark, I’m just talking about wine to drink. I have never bought wine as an investment, and hope to drink all that I have. Viewed in that light, 2016 seems like a major buy vintage.

For sure. But, to be honest, there are times when I go to pull a bottle and realize that it’s “worth” quite a bit more than I had thought, as a result of appreciation. I really dislike that as I would prefer to simply grab what I want for the given time. There have been times when I have sold wines, but only because I no longer appreciated their taste and not to capitalize on appreciation of value.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Mark, I’m just talking about wine to drink. I have never bought wine as an investment, and hope to drink all that I have. Viewed in that light, 2016 seems like a major buy vintage.

Could be. The question then is will you be able to find wines with good provenance for less money than your outgoings would be if you bought now. I am pretty sure you can buy cheaper in the future.

That being said, I suspect that for many here, being sure of the condition and buying the formats you want outweigh the monetary advantage of saving a few dollars in the secondary market.

[R_Frankel]

Fascinating thread, thank you all for your perspectives. I got in the Bordeaux game decades (3 to be exact!) after 1982 and so haven’t had many. The few I’ve had have been lovely (LLC was amazing) but prices now are prohibitive, especially relative to, say, 1985, 1989, 1996. I’m happy to hear the comparisons to 2005 - I’ve back-filled a lot of that vintage. I’ve avoided ‘16 though. I’m a bit too old for it.

[Br1an_Th0rne]

A great topic! I’m a bit too young to have tasted the 82’s in their youth, as the 95’s were the first wines I bought upon release. Honestly, I’ve never met a young red Bordeaux (less than 5 years old) that I’ve enjoyed, so I would have been at the mercy of the critic reviews! I like to think that I would have purchased cases of GPL, as I’ve done with just about every excellent vintage since the ‘95!

[Otto_Forsberg]

How about the vintage itself then? Now you’re all talking about the wineries. How was the vintage itself compared to the ones we have now? If the 2021 growing season would be identical to 1982, how would that compare? Do you think we’d have another legendary vintage?

[Julian_Marshall]

As for the wines, I think they differ from the modern vintages in two major respects, alcohol and acidity. Alcohol was by comparison low, most wines hovering around the 13 degrees though a little bit higher on the Right Bank. Second the wines were balanced, the acidity clear if a little lower than usual, and the wines were fresh from the get go.

Absolutely - this is the whole point. It was the combination of ripeness, balance and freshness that made them so special.

I didn’t know of Parker at the time, only discovering his book a few years later, but I do remember that the few British critics I had access to were not over-confident about the ageing potential. In their defence, I think the vintage was at the time so atypical that the usual criteria could not be applied, so they were slightly wrongfooted.

It’s true that lots of today’s top producers were not performing at their best then - but as Thomas pointed out, that wasn’t really the point if you were a young whippersnapper like me - I was drinking the cheaper stuff from the Médoc and St.Emilion, which was just sensational. Another huge difference was the lack of consultants - yes, some producers blew it, but the wines were still enjoyable - and original.

If the same vintage came along today, I would think that some would do better than they did in 1982 but that many would simply wreck it by trying too hard. In fact I suspect that the same vintage has come along, more than once, but with different results.

I’m sorry, that sounds very fogeyish - there are obviously wines produced today that do manage to capture the same tastes as the 1982s - try some Clos du Jaugueyron, for example, or countless wines from the Loire.

As for 1982s to buy today, the only wine I know of which I can recommend without hesitation would be, as Maureen said, Gruaud Larose. I finished the last one last year and it was almost as good as the first. IMO Gruaud has never come close to repeating that level of quality since and in 1982, it comfortably beat all other St.Juliens except perhaps LLC.

[Howard_Cooper]

Mark, I’m just talking about wine to drink. I have never bought wine as an investment, and hope to drink all that I have. Viewed in that light, 2016 seems like a major buy vintage.

Could be. The question then is will you be able to find wines with good provenance for less money than your outgoings would be if you bought now. I am pretty sure you can buy cheaper in the future.

That being said, I suspect that for many here, being sure of the condition and buying the formats you want outweigh the monetary advantage of saving a few dollars in the secondary market.

I think condition is an important point. The condition of wine I have tasted that has been bought on the secondary market has been distinctly mixed. Some of it has been quite good, but other bottles have been tired or shot when more properly stored bottles of the same wine have been really good. There really is no substitution for controlling the condition of the bottles of wine, even though doing so requires a great deal of patience.

[Robert_Sand]

High yields, lack of selection, lack of dependency on second wines, many vineyards not in the great shape they are today, petit chateau were not producing wines at the level they are today, and while you had great success with the best vineyards, the general lack of consistency would have 1982 considered as good, but not great.

… so a typical off-vintage …

[Howard_Cooper]

As for 1982s to buy today, the only wine I know of which I can recommend without hesitation would be, as Maureen said, Gruaud Larose. I finished the last one last year and it was almost as good as the first. IMO Gruaud has never come close to repeating that level of quality since and in 1982, it comfortably beat all other St.Juliens except perhaps LLC.

Fortunately, I bought some 1982 Gruaud Larose on futures (I think I paid $126 a case) and have one bottle left.

I would put it about even with the 1982 Ducru and behind the LLC but ahead of the Leoville Barton.

[Julian_Marshall]

As for 1982s to buy today, the only wine I know of which I can recommend without hesitation would be, as Maureen said, Gruaud Larose. I finished the last one last year and it was almost as good as the first. IMO Gruaud has never come close to repeating that level of quality since and in 1982, it comfortably beat all other St.Juliens except perhaps LLC.

Fortunately, I bought some 1982 Gruaud Larose on futures (I think I paid $126 a case) and have one bottle left.

I would put it about even with the 1982 Ducru and behind the LLC but ahead of the Leoville Barton.

$126? Ouch. I only had two Ducrus, which somehow never really took off, but no doubt there were better bottles.