The joke is multi-layered. I don’t want the Joke Explanation Police coming down on me!
I would throw out the idea of giving Grand Cru status to the hill that was originally (I believe) the Fuqua vineyard, which was then broken up over time and is now Archery Summit’s Red Hills vineyard and (again, I think) the Holstein vineyard for Granville Wine Co. Originally planted in the early 70s, there have been some tremendous wines that have come from those vineyards.
The original Goldschmidt vineyard is now Winderlea. Could we give Grand Cru status to both sides of Worden Hill Road from Bergstrom/Cameron west to Knudsen? There’s a lot of history and great wine that came from that stretch of hillside.
Agree. The other piece is: is it grand cru status in just white or red and white? Because I’m not sure if even in WS’s lineup it is my favorite of their reds but I also havent gotten to have much experience with it either
In this imaginary situation, I think it’s fair to give grand cru status in any way that you feel can be justified. For approval, you’ll have to mail me the bottle that you are using as proof.
For verification of course
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White Rose is a pretty special site. Arcus as well.
The issue here perhaps, is that we ahould delineate what defines a “Grand Cru” site? And also include the concept of Premier Cru as well.
Many of my favorite Burgundies come from Premier Cru sites, and I would choose a large range of 1er Cru Volnays over any Clos Vougeot that I have had.
Also-it might be best to avoid the use of “the best” regarding vineyards in the WV. If for no other reason than it validates Jim’s earlier not so tongue in cheek post and I don’t want a big cloud of smug floating up over the fence from PGC…
I don’t think there’s many people with a wide enough knowledge of the Willamette Valley(including myself), and I know jack about the rest of the state.
There are a ton of under the radar vineyards. Fir Crest was planted in 1985, and to my knowledge when we vineyard designated it in 2015 was the first time the vineyard name was on a front label. The quality of the fruit surprised me when I first saw that fruit at a co-op winemaking space in 2005. The Pinot Blanc was exceptional, and when I finally got around to making Pinot Noir from the vineyard, it elevated above the other Yamhill-Carlton fruit that I was working with immediately. It’s still an unheard of vineyard unless you’re on my mailing list, but I think the potential in that vineyard is as good as any in Yamhill-Carlton. And I hope the new owners continue to build the name and produce wines that really live up to the potential of the vineyard.
X-Novo Rouge is off the charts good IMO.
Arcus, which is the old Archibald vineyard, for sure.
And I do think that some of the sites over on the other side of the mountains are very, very nice indeed.
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Lots of great responses in here, although I am a bit surprised no one has mentioned Thomas (unless I am being dense and missed it).
Speaking of, is there an authoritative Willamette Valley vineyard map? I couldn’t find one online.
I’d say the GCs of Oregon Pinot would be (missing several I’m sure):
Abbey Ridge
Maresh
Shea
Beaux Freres
Seven Springs
Clos Electrique
Eyrie Estate OV
X-Novo (after several more years)
Whistling Ridge
Other great ones that might be more like a Clos Vougeot (both very large and variable depending on producer) - Temperance Hill, Freedom Hill.
I guess my thought is kind of opposite of that, in that I imagine that the grand cru system in burgundy also started as a bunch of monks sitting there asking themselves which wines they liked the best. Seems as good of place as any to start. Especially since the Bordeaux model of just choosing the most expensive wines wouldn’t end up choosing the best in Oregon IMO (as evidenced by the fact that not one person has mentioned Antikythera vineyard yet, for example)
Interesting topic. My most memorable Pinot and Chard experiences have been with bottles from Whistling Ridge, Hyland, Seven Springs, Beaux Freres, Shea, Balcombe 1B and Eyrie OV.
While not necessarily a determinant for “GC” status, the last 3 are the only ones out of that list where I’ve had “older” examples of Oregon Pinot from. Excited to let my collection of the others, which are more in the 2014-2019 range, gather some time to see how they get on.
Glad there aren’t Grand Crus in the WV. Lots of freedom for winemakers to show their skills and make the best of a wide range of vineyards…some 20+ miles from each other. Better than the fierce bickering about whether the row 20 feet over is GC or 1er and worth the extra $250+/bottle…or not, because it’s a family legacy with allegedly under-performing progeny at the helm.
RT
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I struggle with this.
One of the great things about Oregon, to me at least, is just how varied Oregon is in terms of the wines it produces. It’s not just Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, but also Riesling, Sauvignon Blanc, Gewurztraminer, and many others.
I always fear that any form of classification would incentivise growers and producers to focus on those classified varieties at times to the detriment of experimenting with different varieties due to the greater financial benefits
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I don’t think you have anything to worry about. This is all just a fun “what if…” consideration. I really doubt anything will ever be codified in Oregon wine making beyond the AVAs. There would be decades (centuries?) of haggling and bickering over how to decide the classifications. And it is not as if Americans are growing in their enthusiasm for rules, regulations, and authorities. Not even in little old easy going Oregon. ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
No, we agree. I only meant a place where there were lots of monks and priests. I could have just as easily have said near a monastery. I can see how you thought parish or abbey would imply an administrative authority. But those monks weren’t just hanging out drinking wine. They were part of the Catholic Church, probably the largest single land owner in Europe. So while those monks might have had vineyard preferences (like we do), the Church “princes” had their say in the matter. You can bet the Abbey or Bishop were pretty quick to decide that the best vineyards ought to be stocking their cellars. Anyway, we are the monks of our day (secular or otherwise) tossing about which vineyards we like best. Hopefully, the princes in Salem won’t have a say in the matter.
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White Rose is a pretty special site. Arcus as well.
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And up on the same hill is Domaine Drouhin, and across from them an estate no one likes to talk about on this forum.
Nysa and De Ponte aren’t shabby either, but is it the terroir or wine making that distinguishes the best from the also rans?
If we’re looking at Grand Cru Vineyards, three of the major grand cru vineyards in Burgundy (La Tache, Romanee Conti, La Romanee) are monopoles!
Never sure what to do with threads like this. I’m not much for the comparisons between Oregon and Burgundy. I get why it happens. I don’t think I have any comments about what vineyard is what level and vineyard is another level.
For those that don’t know, however, PGC is the largest cataloger of older, historically significant and well-farmed vineyards in Oregon. We currently receive fruit from:
Anderson Family (Dundee site planted in 1992)
Arcus Vineyard (originally Archibald planted in 1978)
Balcombe (Dundee planted in 1990)
Chehalem Mountain (Dick Erath’s original site planted in 1968)
Corrine (Chehalem Mtn AVA site originally planted as Jacob-Hart Vineyard in 1988)
Durant (Dundee Hills originally planted in 1972)
Estate (second site planted in Ribbon Ridge in 1984)
Freedom Hill (originally planted in 1982)
Hyland (originally planted in 1972)
Lia (part of the Jacob-Hart Vineyard along with Corrine)
Medici (Chehalem Mtn AVA originally planted in 1976)
Ridgecrest (first Ribbon Ridge site planted in 1982)
Risdall Ranch (originally Shafer Vineyard planted in 1972)
Weber Vineyard (originally planted 1978)
Additionally we have made wines from Seven Springs (as Anden 2002-2006), Shea (2000-2004), Eason (now part of Eyrie planted in 1985), White Rose (technically only at Torii Mor and initially planted in 1980), Whistling Ridge (2003-2012), Red Hills (2009) and Winderlea (as Goldschmidt 2002-2006 and Winderlea 2007-8).
I don’t know how many of these are or would be or might be GC comparable. I do know that these sites all originally harken back to an older and rarer time in the Oregon wine biz. These are all, in some way, important and relevant vineyards. We tend to get the oldest or at least oldest remaining blocks in these sites. Some of these sites still do, could or should lay claim to having the capacity to producing fruit that could be turned into absolutely top level wines. There are, of course, newer sites that are at or have the potential to be at a place where their individual excellence could be considered over a long period of time.
At the least it is encouraging that people are willing to consider the sites of Oregon meriting a discussion of a Burgundy-like hierarchy even if it will never happen and is likely a terrible idea in the real world.
We have made every effort to seek out places of historical Oregon significance and keep their stories going (or alive in some cases). Glad that people are willing to engage in the conversation and support our endeavors and those of folks like Marcus, Ken, Kelley and on and on.
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