Very good discussion but I myself tend to stick with France. However I am always on the look out for the Mulderbosch Cab Sauv Rosé from S Africa.
Wish I could find more Cab Franc though from the Loire.
While I’ve had lots of new producer CA rose that I like (from producers like Idlewild, Matthaisson, the Withers, Arnot-Roberts) the value factor does keep me from buying more compared to a lot of $15 Europeans. The only US rose I buy year-in-out is the ESJ Bone Jolly (it’s close to $20 now, but still a good value to me)
Under $20: Bunan, Bastide Blanche, Rouviere, Galantin, etc. Moving up in quality, Pibarnon and Gros Nore are not much more, and, as often seems to be the case with French wines, one can sometimes find deep discounts. For less expensive I tend to look to Provence. The wines aren typically not the match of Bandol (excepting wines like Clos Sibonne, Chateau Simone, or Ott) but they are often still lovely and under $15.
I don’t understand why Roses are so consistently approached as a cheap wine?
Well, I’m guessing one reason is because, by and large, they don’t benefit from cellaring. Tempier is an exception but many of the others are best when freshest.
Because most of them are not very complex and the vast majority are simply made to be pleasant quaffers. They are less expensive and time consuming to make (very little time on the skins, no oak treatment, etc.) and they get to market quickly, so it makes sense that they are less expensive to purchase. There are certainly a few “high end” roses whether it be Tempier or, even more, SQN and Antica Terra, but those are few and far between.
It’s a great category of wines, not sure why the being less expensive is some sort of badge of shame.
A lot of the California ones are a byproduct of saigneeing (then watering back) overripe grapes. Rather than sell the juice as bulk might as well ferment it and have some easy income in the spring.
That’s why I avoid many inexpensive new world rosés.
Robert Sinskey makes a fantastic rose that has yet to disappoint, even though it is a bit pricier than other roses I generally drink.
Which ones named in this thread would qualify for your condemnation?
If you really want to know PM me 
Just kidding. I’d imagine most in this thread are not made that way, but most of these wines represent a small fraction of total rosé production for CA.
And wine that is collectible and/or worthy of geek affirmation represents a minuscule percentage of all wine produced.
We’ve had this discussion before but I think it bears repeating - there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with making rose in a saignee style, and many more wineries that you might believe both in the US and around the world do so. The ‘challenge’ is to think ahead and try to envision the ‘finished’ wine. If you simply saignee and do nothing, changes are that you’re going to have a high alcohol, low acid wine that is not going to be fun to drink by most.
I personally do not use this method, but have in the past and know many that do. It is expensive to purchase grapes from better places that are going to be used solely for rose - another reason costs have gone up with domestic versions.
As far as laying them down, I think there continues to be a misnomer about roses - yes, you can lay Tempier and other high end Bandol producers down and they will continue to ‘evolve’ for a few years . . . but my guess is that you can do that selectively with domestic producers as well. I can tell you that the best bottle I’ve had thus far of my 2015 Mourvedre Rose was the one I had last week . . . and someone just posted a nice note on my 2014 Mourvedre Rose.
With regards to high flyers like SQN and Antica, my guess is that these drink more like ‘reds’ than they do Roses and are priced as such - but I could be wrong and am open to correction (I’ve had one SQN and one from Sanguis that certainly came across that way).
Cheers!
Tercero - another vote. I even have my 22 year old daughter buying it down in Santa Barbara.
Larry, I’ve definitely had saignee style rose that’s good, but I do think people who pick grapes specifically to make rose do end up more successful at making a good/interesting/exciting/etc wine.
That’s kind of funny. “Laying down” now means that a wine can last 2-3 years past the release date? Talk about moving the bar so that Rose/US wines can compete. For my palate, Tempier evolves for at least 5-6 years (the limit of my experience with that wine) and quite possibly much longer. Speaking of cellar worthy, another delicious Euro rose that hasn’t yet been mentioned (but it is kind of sui generis) is Lopez de Heredia’s Rosada Gran Reserva Tondonia. I had the 2000 vintage in 2012 and felt that it was only at the beginning of it’s drinking window (I think it’s original release date was around 2011.)
Of course, we could talk about why we fetishize/value more highly wines that evolve and can be laid down for a few years, but that is a different subject.
Nolan,
I gotta say that I’ve plenty of uninspired roses made by those who picked those grapes specifically for rose. The biggest culprits these days are wineries picking when too soon in order to make roses lower and lower in alcohol. I know that the movement is going that way, but when it comes to most wines, including rose, too low is not a good thing - if there is not enough alcohol, there will not be enough body. To me, that dividing line is about 12% - get much lower than that and I find the Roses to be thin. Of course, you don’t want to be too high - I’ve had plenty of 14+% alcohol roses that just were not fun to drink.
Cheers!
Larry…
Cage match. To the death.
Point well taken! I guess we will see how things continue to evolve in the US as we continue to fine tune the way we make our roses. I am hopeful that many of us, including myself, will have Roses that you can lay down for 5-10 years and see they continue to evolve.
The Lopez de Heredia is a different beast altogether, and I truly and honestly believe that one needs to have a different kind of appreciation to enjoy that wine relative to other Roses - but again, perhaps that’s just me.
Love the discussion - let’s keep it rolling!
Cheers.
Yes, definitely LDH is a different beast so not quite fair to introduce it into the discussion.
It’ll sure be fascinating and fun to see how US roses evolve in terms of cellar-worthiness.
I don’t see most rose as something to age for the medium or long term (except for rare ones like LdH and Musar), but I do think many of them are a little better in the second or third year from release as compared to year one.
Of course, Larry could be right and maybe I’m just not giving them enough of a chance.
One of my favorite roses ever was the few years that Dehlinger made one, a saignee of pinot noir. They were something like $15, and held up well for at least several years.