Is there a/how does one get on the DRC list

WINE TALK
61

It is all a question of experience, memory and palate. I am a bit rusty probably these days since the 2006 was the last DRC vintage I bought and tasted at release- but once I had several years of tasting experience and the DRC TNs got into the 100s, I could spot them pretty easily- and sometimes on nose alone.

What I think makes DRC so unique is that the wines can be so incredibly refined and elegant- yet also really push the envelope in fully and dramatically presenting all the details. The Montrachet is the most obvious example of this- but I think it is present in all of the wines, with Romanee Conti being so extraordinary because you almost taste and experience it more after swallowing it. I know that does not make sense, but it is the closest I can come to describing the phenomenon.

From a qualitative standpoint, DRC has few peers- but they do exist- and a number of wines come awfully close. Generally speaking, where the DRC will have a slight edge is in that the full details of Vosne-Romanee and the particular site are so fully displayed- the peacock’s tail I believe was the old expression used to describe the particular beauty of a mature DRC.

Also, there is greater consistency- markedly so. I am no authority on DRC- far from it- but I have a few hundred (low hundreds) of TNs covering the mid-70s to 2006, and while of course overall quality and potential is impacted by vintage- I can only point to a single wine that I thought was truly flawed. That was the 1987 La Tache- tasted 3 times and each time progressively getting further out of balance. The 1992 Grands-Echezeaux came out a bit green in time where the others were charming midweights- but that is the only other DRC I have ever had that I thought approached a point of being flawed. Even the 1994s have aged nicely (and very slowly) into useful and interesting wines.

There is no doubt DRC pricing has reached a new general height from which it will never fall. The real danger I see, as noted in my prior post, is that more and more merchants will stop bothering with the wines leaving them to be concentrated into fewer hands as happened with Leroy. But if you ever find yourself in a position to try one, I think it will be worth it. That said, with Meo-Camuzet for a start, and a few others, you can still have a very happy Vosne experience without having DRC in the cellar.

62

I’ve had a dozen DRC wines, nothing in the past 10 years, with one bottle of Grands Echezeaux left in the cellar.

When the wines were 50 - 100% more than other producers in the same Appellations, I could find merit in the expenditure. At 5 - 10 times the price, I am out. Romanee Conti and La Tache obviously have no competitors. I can still afford some of the others without a mortgage, but simply do not think the experience is 10 times better than wines at 1/10th the price. In general I have sworn off Cotes de Nuits (with exceptions), as below the very top level they are simply rarely better than the best Cote de Beaunes which sell for less money.

A quick random example:
2010 Gouges Les Saint Georges is $175.
2010 Courcel Epenots is $95.
IMO the Courcel is better wine.

Dan Kravitz

63

set up a blind tasting, invite a few people, share the cost, and find out for yourself.

i love tasting wines blind.

as far as tasting a similar product, of course you are. it’s from the same appellation… but there’s a reason why people say producer is the most important…

64

IMHO the 83s (apart from Tache and Conti) were pretty rough and 86 was not worth the money.
back in the day DRC was one of the few reliable sources of Burgundy, you could rely on them to keep the yield down and pick at the correct level of ripeness and not stuff up the elevage.
These days there are more domaines who can afford to make a better quality product

65

Hi Alan,

To clarify my position- I do not see dark times ahead for the DRC either in a broader sense. I do think that at some point the secondary market may cool down a bit, but given that even with the lack of open internet distribution of the 2015s I am being told that Romanee-Conti 2015 is reselling for 2-2.5 times the release price, there is still a whole lot of secondary pricing cushion to burn before the wines would be considered “overpriced” at standard retail (plus the long waiting lists to consider.)

What I am saying is that I suspect more and more retailers are going to stop carrying the wines- or at the very least start funneling the entire allocation to one or two people and not bother beyond that (yes, that is happening in some instances.)

If I were a retailer- I would be hard pressed to want to sell DRC these days. For starters, it is now widely public knowledge that certain US retail customers get preferential allocations and pricing. Second, allocations are tiny and hard to share around in a way that makes anyone happy. Third, one so-so vintage and slow demand- and you cannot use the internet to advertise that you have the wines for sale. Finally- just one bottle broken/stolen/unsold can eat up anywhere from 1-5 days of profits on the bread and butter of your business (hard liquor and wines under $15.)

In other words- the wines are too expensive, and in such tiny quantities.

But that apparent inconsistency can turn on you very quickly when a product this expensive is suddenly not in quite such hot demand anymore. At these prices, and with these market restrictions, it will take very little to inflict a great deal of pain on an independent retailer.

66

What is the saying about burgundy… either you can’t buy it or can’t sell it

67

The discussion is interesting.
When one thinks about what has happened for Henri Jayer wines from the family Jayer in a recent sale, which produced more than 30 million euros for a little more than 1000 bottles, we can be afraid about the possible evolution of DRC prices.

When I began collecting wines, I saw on catalogs that DRC prices were always higher than for any other wines. So I was curious and I began buying DRC wines in order to see what it means.

And I became a DRC lover. There is in the wines of DRC something that is specific and full of charm. The question to say : is it better than Rousseau or others has for me no sense because it is different. Is Van Gogh better for the price than Picasso or Rembrandt has not a real sense.

I wanted to explore DRC and I am happy. Here is what I have drunk of DRC wines since 2000 :

1919, 1922, 1923, 1928, 1929 (6), 1933 (2), 1934 (2), 1935, 1937 (2), 1938, 1939, 1940 (2), 1942 (5), 1943 (7), 1944 (2), 1945 (2), 1946 (2), 1947 (2), 1948, 1949 (2), 1950 (2), 1951, 1952 (2), 1953 (8), 1954 (3), 1955 (2), 1956 (21), 1957 (8), 1958 (3), 1959 (6), 1960 (4), 1961 (9), 1962 (5), 1963 (3), 1964 (6), 1965 (4), 1966, 1967 (4), 1969 (10), 1970 (2), 1971 (3), 1972 (7), 1973 (5), 1974 (11), 1975 (3), 1976 (3), 1977, 1978 (4), 1979 (6), 1980 (7), 1981 (10), 1982 (7), 1983 (17), 1984 (2), 1985 (3), 1986 (8), 1987 (2), 1988 (5), 1989 (10), 1990 (11), 1991 (7), 1992 (6), 1993 (2), 1995 (5), 1996 (8), 1997 (10), 1998 (7), 1999 (13), 2000 (7), 2001 (5), 2002 (13), 2003 (3), 2004 (5), 2005 (12), 2006 (11), 2007 (13), 2008 (9), 2009 (17), 2010 (25), 2011 (9), 2012 (8), 2013 (9), 2014 (9), Total (486), in 83 vintages

If someone tells me that another domain has great wines for less money, I will try them, but I will not change my love for DRC. The Romanée Conti itself is for me a model of subtlety, finesse, and charm and I love it. Of course the rarity plays its role, but who cares, the important is to have pleasure. Nothing is rational with DRC but I live with that.

I have direct allocations and I know that it is a privilege which allows me to drink the wines that I could probably not afford on the grey market.

68

Wow

Thars millions of dollars worth of wine, the only problem with tasting the worlds best wines regularly is that your denied the hope that the rest of us have to one day taste these great wines. I am envious but it is nice to be able to dream about one day drinking some of the great wines.

69

Alan,
You must consider that the pleasures in life are infinite. To climb mountains, to go fishing with friends, to play golf, to sail boat and so on. I have devoted my life (the second part) to the exploration of every form of wines.

In my data base which counts 15,100 wines, DRC represents 486, which is a little more than 3%. I drink many other wines, but one of my secret gardens is DRC.

When I see what happens on the market of wine, the DRC bottles go from one speculator to another speculator and change ownership probably every two years, making the prices climb. I do not speculate, I drink.

An amateur of wine should be happy to see that some other amateurs really drink these trophy wines and talk about them.

70

Francois

You do yourself a disservice by calling yourself an amateur, im very happy that someone enjoys these wines.

71

Amateur in French means something very different than in English. In English it is the opposite of professional (I am an amateur golfer); in French it has the meaning similar to that of connaisseur.

So an amateur du vin would be a wine connaisseur or a wine lover.

72

Correct. ‘Amateur’ literally mean ‘lover’.

Amo, Amas, Amat.

Francois Audouze is an amateur in the purest sense. He has never been in the wine business (unless you call organizing some dinners itb) but has dedicated much of the latter part of his life to both appreciating and proselytizing for fine wine, most especially wine with bottle age.

Dan Kravitz,
aka Mister Word Person

73

Oops, OK/

Sorry Francois, i was obviously using the English version !! you are obviously not an amateur wine lover by my understanding and that was the point !!

Turns out you are an amateur wine lover by the French definition

74

We (wife and I) are also drinkers and I’m pleased to see people drink these and other amazing wines as we learn and discover through the notes and generosity of friends. Our database counts 1,900 bottles of which DRC represents 12 (.6%). Part of my reasoning of posting this, as we continue to try through various means to secure some kind of allocation, is a bit of frustration due to the commoditization of DRC. A few years ago a restaurant allowed me to purchase and take one home off their list which is when when I caught a glance at the contract they had to sign for the allocation. Based on this my sense is that the owners of DRC want their wines to be enjoyed by drinkers rather than passed around the market as trophies.

75

DRC had agents and merchants to sell their wines in the period when they had difficulties to sell…
Now, they could have direct customers all over the world, and it would change completely the insane profits made by agents ans merchants who multiply the prices by more than 2.

The rule would be : if you sell, you will lose your allocation, and merchants and agents would be no more necessary.

As there are very close relations and historical relations, this will not happen soon, but it could be an idea.

76

DRC is fully aware of the insane prices made by merchants. They raise their prices slowly every year but remain largely under the grey market.

Domaine Leflaive has decided to increase their prices in order to be at market price. In these conditions I have decided not to buys their Montrachet, because where is the interest to pay the market price and buy every year ?

77

Silly question but what do you expect to pay if not the market price ? do you expect a special discount ?

78

Market price for top shelf burgundy is much higher than retail pricing for top shelf burgundy

79

So what is Market Price ?

Is that like wine list price ?

80

Alan,
I receive several emails every day proposing wines, from various merchants from France and other country.

When I read these emails, I can see what could be a market price for a specific wine.

I will take prices as index and a virtual wine, to create no possible contest.

From a domaine, I buy a wine at index 100 and for the same wine I receive offers at index 300.
The offers can vary from 260 to 360 and the average is, let us say 300.

The market price is 300 and I pay 100.

If a domaine thinks : why should I see 200 in the pocket of a merchant when I did all the work?
He decides to put the price of his wine at 300.

Then I think : being registered in the books of the domaine, I buy every year. The great and the weak years. If there is no difference with the market price, I have no more obligation to buy every year and I will buy when I want to drink the wine.

To be clear, being in France, I buy from Burgubdy domaines directly and not through an agent.
So market price is the average offers that I receive.

Note : I took a multiplication of 3 for the prices of merchants. It could be different. This is not automatic.