What is holding wine back, IMO is the fact that per glass prices have escalated so much. (A fine wine in the NYC suburbs is $15-$45 per glass.)
Most are intimidated by ordering a full bottle of wine. Further, markups on full bottles in restaurants have increased from 2X on average to 3X or more over the past decade.
Pricing and attitude are holding back fine wine. Wine needs to be more fun and less stuffy!
So true. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked at a menu and thought “Interesting beer for $6 or supermarket wine for $8.” The Restaurant industry (along with car dealerships and ink jet printer mfrs) need a new business model. It doesn’t mean I really drink less wine, but eat out less.
For someone really interested in wine simply a shift in winemakers at a well-loved estate can be endlessly fascinating.
For people following fashions there will be a new white zinfandel/merlot/pinot noir every few years.
Yeah, this.
And I have no problem with vast throngs of consumers moving to the “fresh”, “new” consumables over in the beer and spirits aisle.
Not to mention the craft cocktail movement. “Interesting sounding cocktail that I’d never make at home or a wine that I’d never buy myself selling for 4x what it costs at retail”. Thankfully there are exceptions. One of the frustrating things about Danny Meyer restaurants is that they go for the trifecta - interesting, well priced wine, beer and cocktail lists. And there are a few places like Pearl and Ash or Trestle on Tenth where I can happily order off the wine list but they are still pretty uncommon.
Yes, I think the wine world is overflowing with new and fresh ideas to the point where the cycle of hipness has become a bit of a joke. Grosses Gewachses! Orange wine! Yellow wine! Concrete eggs! Qvevris! Trousseau in California! But most people I know aren’t interested in wine because of a thirst for something new and fresh, they are interested in it for the exact opposite reason, as something bound in tradition.
There were no Chablis at the 1976 judgment of Paris and Anchor Steam and Sierra Nevada were well established before Sam Adams joined the party.
Although the current cocktail craze has been fantastic, I don’t see wine losing its status as the world’s premier adult beverage anytime soon.
IBM had wine parties and stores?? No wonder so many people wanted to work there!
California has its Cabernet Sauvignon today as it did 40 years ago, just as Italy has their Chiantis.
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Stil, your wine shop will have the standards. The Cabernets, the Merlots, Red Zinfandel, Pinot Noir,
Chardonnay, etc. Those grapes have been around for a long time. What you might see is how a country becomes the ‘popular’ on in wine production. After the USA, Australia opened a new range in products, then Chile, now Argentina…… But the wines are basically the same.Are people going to get stale because there is nothing new and exciting in the wine market?
Seriously? What rock have you been holed-up under the past decade or two? There are more interesting and exciting wines out there than EVER before, all it takes is for you to look. You want a good start, read this and the other boards you mentioned (well, not the Beer and spirit boards). Get off yer duff and EXPLORE - it’s a wonderful ride!
I agree with the posts about the price of wine and the quality of wine at restaurants - if you aren’t into wine, you are not likely to be exposed to fine wine when you go out to eat. I’m not into beer at all anymore, but given the choice of the $6 craft beer vs. the $8 supermarket wine while dining out, the beer wins every time.
New and exciting wine…? Seems like there are plenty of new and exciting differences produced every year simply by climate, vineyard and winemaker.
The biggest problem with wine consumption is - there is little to no growth at the on-sale establishments - Personally, I can’t even remember the last time I ordered a glass of wine at a restaurant or bar -
The pricing is atrocious - $8-$12.00 for a glass of “everyday” wine at a simple dinner is way too much to spend - uppity wine service makes matters even worse.
Craft beer is so much more affordable, and it’s only going to get worse for wine consumption if the restauranteurs and wine bar owners don’t start understanding what an “everyday” table wine is, and start offering wines for $3 - $4 a glass. Vinho Verde, Gascogne Blanc, Cotes du Rhone in particular clock in at $1.25 - $1.50 a glass, the barkeepers can still make a nice profit without totally raping the customer.
Does anyone know the markup on beer is in bars and restaurants? I don’t, but it would be interesting to know. BTG wine in restaurants is typically they charge for the glass about what they paid for the bottle wholesale.
I didn’t mean to start a war over this topic. Just some simple observations made over the past 5 to 10 years.
Interest in newer items?
That is part of my job. I am on the look out for New wines, new varietals from different countries. We bring in the salesman to show us these wines and if we think they could sell, we buy them. I can not tell you how many salesman have walked away with a sale. Afterall, to me, its the customer, the wine consumer that really counts.
I also have to look at new Beers and Spirits to bring in. Here is where the biggest activity lies. This again goes along with the point I was trying to make.
Wine Markup. Here in the Northeast , specifically NYC and Southwest CT, it was about 3 times the retail price. However, with the economic times we are in, I’ve seen m any restaurants selling wines at 2 times the retail price (per bottle)
According to my hip junior portfolio manager, the wines of Jura and Muscadet are what the Williamsburg crowd is looking at as it pertains to the wine world. Moderate price is key to them, as is it being in a place that no one can easily identify.
Gruner is so Manhattan these days (ie past its prime). 
The markup on beer may be the same or higher. A decent but not exotic craft beer may run $1.25-$1.50 a bottle and sell at a restaurant here for $4-6. However, I am more likely to get something I would actually choose to drink on my own. Paying $8 for something I don’t really care to drink is more troublesome.
I expect the markup on all beverages to some extent. The markup on a glass of iced tea or fountain soda is probably 20x the cost of the beverage inside the glass. I wish the restaurant industry could come up with another pricing model where money was made on food.
<Craft beer is so much more affordable, and it’s only going to get worse for wine consumption if the restauranteurs and wine bar owners don’t start understanding what an “everyday” table wine is, and start offering wines for $3 - $4 a glass.>
Exactly! I frequent a place that has 48 different artisan beers on tap and switches them out monthly.
Wine by the glass for basic plonk is $8 per glass vs $5 to $6 for the beers. I drink the plonk (which I have on many occasion) and I spend more on my tab and I feel like crap the next day.
Sigh, I remember getting excited over seeing a Gruner on a wine list back in the 90s. Now I’m surprised when I don’t see it. I’m getting old…
I think price has a lot to do with it (as some have pointed out) but I think it’s also a generational thing. I posted a story in the Beer and Spirits forum here yesterday about how beer is now more popular than wine with women 18-34. I think a lot of this has to do with price and perceived quality. You can buy great beer in Portland for $6.50-$10/six pack and comparably priced wine doesn’t compare when it comes to quality (by comparably priced I’m comparing a six pack to a bottle of wine which I think is fair). Beer has a lot of advantages: much more affordable, huge variety of world-class, locally produced options, and better pairing options with a lot of food, particularly hot/spicy foods (and I say this as a wine person). It’ll be interesting to see if some of them move to wine as we get older, but, frankly, I don’t see most of them doing that. I think that as beer becomes more and more accepted in the culinary world (tasting menus matched with beers, beer dinners, etc), you might see less people moving from beer to wine in their mid-30’s or 40’s.
I really disagree with this post. First off, I think that the comparison b/w a craft beer and a $45-50 bottle doesn’t hold up. If that was the choice I’d almost always choose beer. But there is a ton of good wine at far lower prices than that, and for most people making this choice (by an overwhelming margin I’d imagine) the choice is closer to 1:1 in price, an $10 six pack or an $10 bottle. And that is fine. We choose to spend up but there is plenty of good wine at lower price points. Even the consistency argument I disagree with, as many widely available brands provide high quality, maybe just not up to the norm around here.
I do think that the markup on wine is a killer and reducing it only brings more people into the fold.
One of the main points that beer has going for it, IMO, is the local pride angle. For most of us drinking locally with wine isn’t a real option.