Jancis R says riesling is better

[RichardFlack]

The article title says white wine grape. Though I can’t see the article (yet), not all riesling is from Germany.

The article was really about German Riesling and climate change, and 2019 vs 2018 vintages. Mosel is not cool climate lately.

Would love to have read it, don’t have a subscription though. I get the Times.

FT?

[Rich_K0rz_nk0]

The article was really about German Riesling and climate change, and 2019 vs 2018 vintages. Mosel is not cool climate lately.

Would love to have read it, don’t have a subscription though. I get the Times.

FT?

Sorry, NY Times. Bias from being an over-assuming former NYer. The Times, The Journal. The slang I fall back to.

[DanielP]

The wine list in the article titled “Some beautiful dry German 2019 Rieslings” is a little bizarre since it lists a lot of kabinett which are most certainly not dry. Thought that was a little bizarre. Certainly fine wines though, the lot of them.

[R_Frankel]

The market is waking up to German Riesling. Have a look at this year’s VDP/Bernkasteler Auctions. Wow, prices are up far beyond Keller. Try to buy a couple cases of Schaefer, Falkenstein … good luck. Prices are too low to really excite speculators (I hope!) who prefer higher $/ounce for efficient storage. But it seems likely that top 50 type producers - that we focus on here - will see sustained price increases going forward. Data? Look at the last 5 vintages.

[RichardFlack]

Daniel - I suspect that was in relation to the Auslesen etc.
See what I mean about German wines being complicated at least for the average consumer.

A related question, perhaps it’s been covered elsewhere. Is the reputation of a grape (or established blend ) mainly determined by
A) The very top producers (for example, Egon Mueller, JJPrum etc, DRC, Petrus etc)
B) The good to excellent producers eg Von Kesselstat, Ponsot, Trotanoy say
C).Mass market. Eg Blue Nun, Jadot Bourgogne, Moeuix Pomerol.

I think German mass market wines have some ‘splaining to do. (Along with several other varieties, Pinot Grigio were looking at you … )

[DanielP]

I suspect part of the problem is image as well as very confused, not to say deceptive, marketing (“beware the bereich” as someone more learned than I put it). A quality system based on sweetness is perverse. (Next will be Napa quality designation based on ABV).

I don’t think the quality of the wine itself is based on the pradikat level. Spatlese wines are not of lower quality than auslese. And nowadays, with grapes achieving full ripeness at all levels, quality is pretty great across all pradikat levels, it just affects the ripeness.

I take issue with your characterization of the pradikat levels being “perverse.” If you know what the characterizations refer to, then it’s a useful way to know how the ripeness of a wine lies in relation to the rest of the producer’s lineup. And positing a hypothetical Napa pradikat-like system makes no sense as a counterargument. Perhaps you can explain what is perverse about the quality system.

A related question, perhaps it’s been covered elsewhere. Is the reputation of a grape (or established blend ) mainly determined by
A) The very top producers (for example, Egon Mueller, JJPrum etc, DRC, Petrus etc)
B) The good to excellent producers eg Von Kesselstat, Ponsot, Trotanoy say
C).Mass market. Eg Blue Nun, Jadot Bourgogne, Moeuix Pomerol.

I think German mass market wines have some ‘splaining to do. (Along with several other varieties, Pinot Grigio were looking at you … )

I can’t answer your related question except to say that the price differences between A, B, and C for German wines is miniscule compared to great wine regions in the rest of the world.

*edited my post for clarity

[Adam_Frisch]

I think we all know why Riesling sales have gone to the basement. Just like Mel said. Consumers want dry white wines to go with their salad or to sip on the porch on a summer day. That’s the market. Riesling is stylistically clinging to a consumer that doesn’t exist in large numbers anymore.

[Joshua_Kates]

Though I like Jancis a lot and subscribe to both the New York and Financial Times (FT is a great paper, btw), she is simply wrong White burgundy with all its viscissitudes is tops for me.

Maybe this link will work better?

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

[Nate_Simon]

The market is waking up to German Riesling.

I’ve been hearing this for >25 years.

[Howard_Cooper]

I love some Rieslings. I love some Chardonnay. I mostly drink Riesling from Germany (actually I mostly drink Riesling from the MSR). I mostly drink Chardonnay from Burgundy and Champagne. If my choices are between drinking a Prum or Zilliken on the one hand or a Ramonet or Comte de Champagne on the other hand, I would say all of the above. I would much prefer a Zilliken Rausch Kabinett to an Aubert Chardonnay or a Ramonet CM Morgeot to any Austrian Riesling I have had (comparisons to Clos St. Hune would be tougher).

An advantage to Riesling is GKA.
An advantage to Chardonnay is Champagne.

So, it is hard to say which is my favorite. But, if we include red grapes, where there are red Burgundies.

[R_Frankel]

The market is waking up to German Riesling.

I’ve been hearing this for >25 years.

LOL, yes of course. What I would say is that the market is for sure waking up to German Riesling. How much will it wake up? Will it just rub its collective eyes, roll over and go back to sleep? How likely are predictions of a huge surge of demand for German Riesling? Hmmmm …

[David_Bu3ker]

I think we all know why Riesling sales have gone to the basement. Just like Mel said. Consumers want dry white wines to go with their salad or to sip on the porch on a summer day. That’s the market. Riesling is stylistically clinging to a consumer that doesn’t exist in large numbers anymore.

There are plenty of dry Rieslings. You are behind the times.

[Anton_D]

Jancis may have said it, but I’ll wait for Suckling, he would be the definitive determiner.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I try and not and dub things the greatest, its so subjective. There is such a thing as popular opinion and consensus, however those are not absolutes.

That all said, I personaly find Riesling to be the most versatile and fun. Its like a Swiss army knife of grapes and I love it for that.

Exactly this point.

I kind of feel like this means it’s like Chenin Blanc…but I like those two equally well so if the shoe fits.

[Mike_C1]

I think we all know why Riesling sales have gone to the basement. Just like Mel said. Consumers want dry white wines to go with their salad or to sip on the porch on a summer day. That’s the market. Riesling is stylistically clinging to a consumer that doesn’t exist in large numbers anymore.

There are plenty of dry Rieslings. You are behind the times.

Adam has yet to find a “dry” Riesling

[Mel_Knox]

The article in question is listed as free for all on the JR website.

What I saw in the 70s was that very quickly folks jumped from loving German wines to trying the new generation of Italian whites, and/or California Chardonnay. It happened in a two or three year period.
The tide went out for German wines and never came back in for a long time. So many theories:

1/the low carb diet aka the drinking man’s diet…no sugar!! Or as a friend said, gin good, tonic bad
2/generational shift…you never drink what your folks drank
3/complicated labels
4/end of the draft in the USA …this theory goes that in the 50s and 60s millions of Americans were stationed in Germany for a couple of years and got acquainted with German wines. When these men became civilians and got good jobs they bought German wines.
5/what oz Clarke called the new Classic Wines of the World…better wines from the Rhone, Italy, Spain, and Portugal started to show up

I’ve also wondered about the economics of making wine in a wealthy industrial country, where worker get six weeks of vacation, good benefits and salaries.On the West Coast we see this problem. Add in the issue of some really steep vineyards!

[Magnus_Solhjell]

I’ve also wondered about the economics of making wine in a wealthy industrial country, where worker get six weeks of vacation, good benefits and salaries.On the West Coast we see this problem. Add in the issue of some really steep vineyards!

The answer in Germany (and France and Italy) is migrant workers from Eastern Europe.

[Mel_Knox]

Here the Trump administration has Iced a lot of people from South of the Border. That has raised wages for the workers

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I think we all know why Riesling sales have gone to the basement. Just like Mel said. Consumers want dry white wines to go with their salad or to sip on the porch on a summer day. That’s the market. Riesling is stylistically clinging to a consumer that doesn’t exist in large numbers anymore.

There are plenty of dry Rieslings. You are behind the times.

Don’t explain the joke.

[David_Bu3ker]

Well, I was trying to not throw Mel under the bus for being out of date…