I didn’t know at the time that any champagne bottle above a magnum size doesn’t contain wine that’s gone through secondary fermentation in the bottle. The 3L and above bottles are filled from 750s, corked and shipped. This kind of handling necessitates buying them fresh and opening them within a few months.
Largely true I imagine, but not 100%. I saw some double mags being riddled by hand in the Krug cellars last November. Granted, we were told this was a very uncommon thing
This 3L champagne thing has me nervous! I have a Jacquesson 739 that I have an email to the winemaker about, to see what the deal is.
It’s good for you to find out just so you can act based on full information.
The leaker 3L I had was a Perrier Jouet Grand Brut. When I popped it, it turned out to be completely still with no carbonation left. But the wine tasted extraordinarily good, like a well aged Riesling. I’m not sure how a traditional champagne blend turned out to taste like Riesling, but the wine was great. My wife and I drank it over a couple of days.
Here is the (really speedy) response from Jacquesson.
Dear Dylan,
You have been misinformed : by law, in Champagne, halves, bottles, magnums and jeroboams are produced following the same method and get the second fermentation in the bottle.
Smaller bottles are not, they are transferred from a regular bottle to the small bottle. And for bottles larger than jeroboams, it depends of the producer.
Your jeroboam of Cuvée 739 can age for many many years.
Sincerely.
Jean-Hervé Chiquet
Proprietor
I am in the market now for a large format birth year wine… had been thinking 9L. When do folks think the following 9L wines would be ready to drink? Wondering if the maturation cycle will be slower than I envisioned, and these will take 50+ years to reach peak, vs. a comfortable 30 years.
Thank you
I would be inclined to the latter. If you’re willing to go to one of the top producers/top cuvees in Barolo 2016 should age beautifully especially in a 9 liter. Not a Bordeaux fan so I wouldn’t go there anyway but I would think a top Barolo producer is going to have wines that are more profound than mid-tier Bordeaux houses. Just my 2 cents. Have not tasted 2016 other than some Nebbiolo de Langhe but all reports to excellent quality wines.
I would be inclined to the latter
Thanks Jim. Just for clarity sake, are you saying, the latter meaning, these wines could be ready to drink in a 9L in 30YRs (my target range is 26-35 years), versus 50+? There were some on the Board that were discussing large formats would be 2x… so if a Conterno 750ML could age 25 years on its own… the implication was a 9L would take 2x as long… e.g. glacial pace… e.g., 50YRs.
Conterno? Giacamo, Aldo, Pablo or Diego?
Then which vineyard?
I don’t think you have a problem with the drinkability of a 30 year old wine in any format. 50 year wines are rare, rare beings (Rudy and others excluded of course) regardless of format size. I would think a well-crafted 2016 Barolo from a top producer and one of their better vineyards would be a beauty in 30 years. The toughest task will be finding one of those bad boys. Not exactly a super-popular bottling size. At around 15,000 cases my winery is bigger than many/most Piemonte operations and we bottle around 10 a year.
Agreed that basically anything you mentioned would go 30. I’d go so far to say that most of the Bordeaux could go 50 in a vintage like 2016. That’s drinking a good 1960s vintage (62 maybe?) in the 2010s, which is perfectly reasonable. Winemaking has no doubt improved so I think it’s a realistic expectation.
I also agree that finding a 9L bottle of anything is going to be a struggle and I’d expect to pay quite a premium for the pleasure. These things really need to be ordered as futures.
One thing to consider - a friend of a friend had a methuselah or some other similarly absurd size of wine lined up for about 20 years, and it turned out to be corked. That curtailed his purchasing in any format bigger than magnum forever. I’m always wary of putting too much stock into big bottles for big occasions, because if disappoint hits…it really hits.
Giacamo Conterno Cerretta, but I could switch to a different 2016 to suit my needs (e.g., if the Cerretta requires more age, etc.)
I don’t think you have a problem with the drinkability of a 30 year old wine in any format. 50 year wines are rare, rare beings (Rudy and others excluded of course) regardless of format size. I would think a well-crafted 2016 Barolo from a top producer and one of their better vineyards would be a beauty in 30 years. The toughest task will be finding one of those bad boys. Not exactly a super-popular bottling size. At around 15,000 cases my winery is bigger than many/most Piemonte operations and we bottle around 10 a year.
I am procuring 9L through pre-arrival/future markets. Bordeaux doable (even still for 2016 perhaps, not 100% sure). Barolo if I plan in advance should be doable.
The 30YR vs. 50YR comment was responding to another post, “My rule of thumb would be ~30 - 50% longer for magnums than 750’s, an additional 10 - 20% for 3L, and let your grandkids worry about the larger formats.” So if a Conterno Cerretta 750ML needs 25YRs to hit its stride, a magnum is then 35YRs, a 3L is then 40YRs. And a 9L would then get you to 50YRs. That’s the thought process I was extrapolating.
I’ve just always thought that the perfect bottling is a magnum. Larger formats, as noted previously, can vary due to the need for manual corking.
There’s only one top-tier Conterno.
Agreed.
I would think Sauternes is guaranteed to be the longest-lived. Zero problem with 50 years, could go a century.
Between Bordeaux and Barolo, I would give the nod to Bordeaux. A great vintage, a much longer track record. AFAIK the three you mentioned remain in the classic style, ie, sullen when young so great promise for ageing. I know that a lot of Bordeaux have been changing style, sometimes rapidly, but based on older experience here a few others that could be worthy of consideration:
Gruaud-Larose
Talbot
Montrose
Clerc-Milon
Latour Carnet
Batailley
Haut-Batailley
Cantemerle
and among the Bourgeois:
Chasse-Spleen
Lanessan
Labegorce-Zede
Haut-Marbuzet
Sociando-Mallet
Senejac
Dan Kravitz
Where would on get a 9 litre bottle of Giacomo Conterno Cerretta? All of the 1800 bottles listed on CT are 750s. This seems like fantasy.
Gun to my head, a 9L of Bordeaux to go the distance, Leoville Barton.
I guess my question was more long the lines of, will these wines be attractively drinkable in years 25-30, versus it being a farce cracking them open ahead of year 50. E.G., I read the “glacial pace” commentary and wondered if perhaps a 9L would be a mistake (not due to the risk of corkage) because the wines would be too young to consume at 30 years.
The few 3L and 6L bottles that I bought because they were “deals” have ended up being contributed at charity auctions. Just not much call for this much of one wine at a single sitting unless you entertain large groups.
That’s one way to dispose of them but if you get three people, a three liter bottle could disappear in an evening. I’ve seen it done up close.
Drank some 3 and 6L over last weekend that were all singing.Started on Sat with a 6L of 2000 Cheval Blanc that was magnificent after a 45 min decant.I’ll have to open a bottle soon to compare maturation curves.Think the highlights of the weekend were the 55 La Mission 3L( perfect condition ) and the 6L 0f 2001 Montrachet DRC.
I’ll post when I’m fully recuperated.