Less known Bordeaux QPRs

[Alex_Rychlewski]

It warms the cockles of my heart to read this thread.

The pendulum is swinging back, and it’s to eveyone’s benefit.

Alex R.
www.bordeauxwineblog.com

[R_Frankel]

Alex - not sure which pendulum you’re referring to?

I think this board proves that Bordeaux (teeth gnashing about price increases aside) has never gone out of style. Certainly as prices go up on the top 20 names the rest of the excellent wine from the region becomes more interesting.

[A_S_K_R_O_B_A_C_K]

@Neal.Mollen

@A S K R O B A C K

I didn’t buy many 2015s, but I did just the opposite with Cantemerle. Instead of 375s, I plunked down for 2 cases of mags to lay down for family functions 20 years from now.

The most likely family function for us to hold in 20 years will be my funeral. And I hope my wife opens something better than a Cantemerle

Well, let’s hope it isn’t bubbly.

[Alex_Rychlewski]

Rich,

The Golden Age of Bordeaux bashing is behind us.

Several reasons for that.

One is that the high prices of the great growths (just 5% of production!), have pushed people to investigate - and enjoy - lesser Bordeaux at reasonable prices.

I mean, really, if you like Cabernet and Merlot, Bordeaux is number one.

There was a gap between older folks who grew up with Bordeaux and younger ones who couldn’t afford it, or understand it, and who considered it a wine for old farts.
But the young’uns are growing up, their palates are maturing, and they’re investigating Bordeaux, as import figures to the United State show.

Also, Burgundy prices have skyrocketed. The “greedy Bordelais” are no longer the only villains. And cheap Burgundy is quite expensive - and often not very good.

That is why I say the pendulum is swinging back.

You refer to “this board”. Most people who post are in the States, but the market for Bordeaux is international. What was a downward trend at one time in America was not universal.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Alex Rychlewski

Rich,

The Golden Age of Bordeaux bashing is behind us.

Several reasons for that.

One is that the high prices of the great growths (just 5% of production!), have pushed people to investigate - and enjoy - lesser Bordeaux at reasonable prices.

I mean, really, if you like Cabernet and Merlot, Bordeaux is number one.

There was a gap between older folks who grew up with Bordeaux and younger ones who couldn’t afford it, or understand it, and who considered it a wine for old farts.
But the young’uns are growing up, their palates are maturing, and they’re investigating Bordeaux, as import figures to the United State show.

Also, Burgundy prices have skyrocketed. The “greedy Bordelais” are no longer the only villains. And cheap Burgundy is quite expensive - and often not very good.

That is why I say the pendulum is swinging back.

You refer to “this board”. Most people who post are in the States, but the market for Bordeaux is international. What was a downward trend at one time in America was not universal.

Best regards,
Alex R.

I agree with most of this, but it is surprising that one who so vigorously fights the canard that bdx is expensive would repeat it for burgundy. Yes, like bdx, the top names are expensive and getting more so, but you can easily find really enjoyable burgs to drink in the same price range as the bdx mentioned above.

[Rudi_Finkler]

From my observation, ignorance and prejudice against the large number of excellent producers from the lesser known appellations are still widespread in wine forums, but the level of ignorance and laziness among the critics and merchants is mind-blowing.

[G_Shields]

[quote="Neal.Mollen”]
I agree with most of this, but it is surprising that one who so vigorously fights the canard that bdx is expensive would repeat it for burgundy. Yes, like bdx, the top names are expensive and getting more so, but you can easily find really enjoyable burgs to drink in the same price range as the bdx mentioned above.[/quote]

Except that it is so much easier to find those examples of reliable and affordable Bordeaux mentioned. For Burgundy, it’s much more of a challenge

[Neal.Mollen]

[quote=“G. Shields”]

@Neal.Mollen

I agree with most of this, but it is surprising that one who so vigorously fights the canard that bdx is expensive would repeat it for burgundy. Yes, like bdx, the top names are expensive and getting more so, but you can easily find really enjoyable burgs to drink in the same price range as the bdx mentioned above.

Except that it is so much easier to find those examples of reliable and affordable Bordeaux mentioned. For Burgundy, it’s much more of a challenge[/quote][/quote]
I just don’t believe that’s true. I just got an offer for the 2016 Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne Rouge. $29. Haven’t had it, but I am sure it’s just lovely and is the same price as a number of wines mentioned in the OP and in this thread. Lots of alternatives in this range

[David_Bu3ker]

I am with Neal. I have been spending some time and dollars exploring more Bourgogne, especially from good, but less heralded producers. The results have been very enjoyable. Many of the wines have shown superior overall quality to California Pinot that go for 2X-3X the price.

[Thomas_Keim]

@D@vid Bu3ker

I am with Neal. I have been spending some time and dollars exploring more Bourgogne, especially from good, but less heralded producers. The results have been very enjoyable. Many of the wines have shown superior overall quality to California Pinot that go for 2X-3X the price.

I don’t see it at all. I am hard pressed to find a decent Bourgogne Rouge for under $25 that I would enjoy. I have always felt that Bourgogne Rouge may be the world’s worst bargain. On the other hand, I can think of 20-30 red Bordeaux in the $15 range that are great values, and well made, delicious wines.

If you were going to compare value, the Languedoc and Rhone maybe with Petite Chateaux, But Burgundy? Never.

[David_Bu3ker]

I can’t find a Languedoc wine I am willing to drink, regardless of price.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Thomas Keim

@D@vid Bu3ker

I am with Neal. I have been spending some time and dollars exploring more Bourgogne, especially from good, but less heralded producers. The results have been very enjoyable. Many of the wines have shown superior overall quality to California Pinot that go for 2X-3X the price.

I don’t see it at all. I am hard pressed to find a decent Bourgogne Rouge for under $25 that I would enjoy. I have always felt that Bourgogne Rouge may be the world’s worst bargain. On the other hand, I can think of 20-30 red Bordeaux in the $15 range that are great values, and well made, delicious wines.

If you were going to compare value, the Languedoc and Rhone maybe with Petite Chateaux, But Burgundy? Never.

The $15 price point is tough in bdx and harder in burgundy. The wines in the OP were more in the $25-30 range, and at that price you can find any number of very fine bourgogne, savigny, mercury, fixin etc. Not wines to change your life but a nice bottle to wash down a meal

I’ll let tne burgundy pros chime in; I am just a bit player in that space

[Thomas_Keim]

@D@vid Bu3ker

I can’t find a Languedoc wine I am willing to drink, regardless of price.

And I just gush all over a good Languedoc red. I just tasted a ten dollar bottle that blew my mind a couple weeks ago -

2016 LES HERITIQUES ROUGE “Vin de Pays de Herault” CHATEAU D’OUPIA -

It’s a Louis Dressner import, so probably easy to find on the East Coast - absolutely frickin’ delicious -

[Alex_Rychlewski]

Neal and a couple of others,

You were right to point out my inconsistency in defending the inexpensive wines of Bordeaux, but not those of Burgundy. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First and foremost is the comparative cost. As for red Bordeaux, you can find good bottles at, let’s say, 8 euros a bottle. Anything roughly equivalent in Burgundy is double that.
Second, I just got back from a week in Burgundy and on three different occasions winegrowers there decried the quality of inexpensive Burgundy.
However, all of these growers were in the Côtes de Nuits/Côtes de Beaune…

That having been said, you are right. I am sure that if you spent the time messing around the Mâconnais and Chalonnais you could find good wines at affordable prices.

As always, it takes a spirit of adventure to source good wines at attractive prices rather than going with the herd.

Alex R.

[Robert.A.Jr]

@D@vid Bu3ker

I can’t find a Languedoc wine I am willing to drink, regardless of price.

Barral?

Some wild wines.

The Valiniere bottling, 80% mourvedre, can be extraordinary.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Alex Rychlewski

Neal and a couple of others,

You were right to point out my inconsistency in defending the inexpensive wines of Bordeaux, but not those of Burgundy. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First and foremost is the comparative cost. As for red Bordeaux, you can find good bottles at, let’s say, 8 euros a bottle. Anything roughly equivalent in Burgundy is double that.
Second, I just got back from a week in Burgundy and on three different occasions winegrowers there decried the quality of inexpensive Burgundy.
However, all of these growers were in the Côtes de Nuits/Côtes de Beaune…

That having been said, you are right. I am sure that if you spent the time messing around the Mâconnais and Chalonnais you could find good wines at affordable prices.

As always, it takes a spirit of adventure to source good wines at attractive prices rather than going with the herd.

Alex R.

You can’t find any decent bdx here for 8 euros I promise

[R_Frankel]

@Alex Rychlewski

Rich,

The Golden Age of Bordeaux bashing is behind us.

Several reasons for that.

[no need to quote the rest]

Alex - thanks. And yes, I pretty much agree with you.

I’m a Cab/Merlot lover btw, and I adore both California & Bordeaux versions, for very different reasons. But on price alone (especially under $50) Bordeaux is the clear winner.

[Al_Osterheld]

I buy some modest priced Bordeaux, but much more modest priced Burgundy. But, I’m more of a Pinot Noir lover than a Cab/Merlot lover. Different strokes.

-Al

[G_Shields]

@Robert Alfert

Barral?

Some wild wines.

The Valiniere bottling, 80% mourvedre, can be extraordinary.

Awesome! Delighted someone mentioned Barral. Had the Jadis 2013 recently and it was indeed pretty sauvage…

You are nothing if not consistent with your palate!

[Mike_J_ewesson]

@Neal.Mollen

@Alex Rychlewski

Neal and a couple of others,

You were right to point out my inconsistency in defending the inexpensive wines of Bordeaux, but not those of Burgundy. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First and foremost is the comparative cost. As for red Bordeaux, you can find good bottles at, let’s say, 8 euros a bottle. Anything roughly equivalent in Burgundy is double that.
Second, I just got back from a week in Burgundy and on three different occasions winegrowers there decried the quality of inexpensive Burgundy.
However, all of these growers were in the Côtes de Nuits/Côtes de Beaune…

That having been said, you are right. I am sure that if you spent the time messing around the Mâconnais and Chalonnais you could find good wines at affordable prices.

As always, it takes a spirit of adventure to source good wines at attractive prices rather than going with the herd.

Alex R.

You can’t find any decent bdx here for 8 euros I promise

I had two recently that are around $10-12 on futures for 2015 that are worthy of picking up…Croix Mouton (made by JP Janoueix of Croix St. Georges fame) and Ampelia (made by Corbin Despagne).