London Wine Club / Survey

[HenryB]

Ridiculous. Like pretty much every other wine enthusiast I keep some of my wine at home, where it is instantly accessible when I want to drink it, taking delivery of my stored wine when I consider the time is right. I wish you well but your proposition is hopeless-do you really not understand the difference between a substantial address in Pall Mall and a restaurant in Shoreditch?

It’s a little funny, eh. First he complains that we want to ‘educate [him] on storage’, and then he asks something like "Also do you need to file a form every time wine arrives? " - which if anyone had any experience of using UK bonded storage, the first thing you’d know is that - No, you dont have to file a form. It’s entirely paperwork free (for me as a customer). And for many merchants, logistics is free as well - I’d have to do an exhaustive check but off hand I can name a few merchants who do free delivery above certain price points, which are not unreasonable at all for a person who drinks nice wine (e.g. £100 minimum spend on BBR for free delivery IIRC).

I’d stress one last time the in bond nature - it’s a completely different game to what you get in the States, for example. I dont know about France or Switzerland, but if I go on the first hit on Google for Switzerland wine Storage - Wine vault - ARVI SA –The Swiss vault of fine and rare Wines - Online Shop - and put in 12 bottles worth 1000 CHF, that’s 8 CHF a month storage cost, and the price you pay is dependent on the wine you store. That’s (a) much more expensive and (b) value-dependent, unlike UK bonded storage.


As a side note OP, if you’re storing 5000 bottles of wine at the prices indicated above, you’d easily save maybe £6000 a year if you move them to a UK bonded warehouse. Might wanna look into it, just fyi!

[Jonathan_A_A]

Thank you Henry, fair enough, again this is maybe not for you, or anyone here for that matter. I am glad I know that. But, again, how does 67 Pall Mall get to 3,000 members paying up to £1,500 / year ? The club aspect might be appealing to some… Not to you, to each his own.

Best,

Jon

To be honest, I’m not a member, so I cant comment. Just looking over their benefits, though, it’s probably having a very diverse wine list where you can pay by-the-glass, and the access to their sommelier team. If those are the main perks of your club, then I’d almost scrap all mention of storage and inventory management - look at their website - Membership - 67 Pall Mall storage is left until the second last bullet point. Also they have the longevity, right? I feel like it’s every other day I hear about one of the wine merchants I use hosting an event or similar at their location. Looking over their events for the next TWO WEEKS alone, they’ve got Jasper Morris, Richard Hemming, Jane Anson alone talking about wines.

Personally, I’d probably not sign up to their services unless someone could articulate to me the value proposition (considering the price)… or made me a lot wealthier


If your intention is to be as event-focused as they are, then that’s brilliant - make sure you shift emphasis appropriately, because of your original post, I’d say half of them were commodity services that I can get anywhere realistically, and some of the others arent really benefits (e.g. You get the chance to book dinner at our restaurant! - No, I want a place guaranteed for me if I decide to come)


If you took my membership fee and gave it to me as a voucher every month for exclusive tastings/events (e.g. we’re doing a first growth tasting and you get a £60 rebate as you’re a member on what is a decent price anyway), then I’d probably be keen. That, or as mentioned before, you’re running an incredible restaurant that is otherwise very difficult to get in to without being a member.

I’m sure there are many other creative things one could do to entice me, just trying to provide a couple of examples

Cheers

Thank you Henry, all fo this makes sense. Seems like storage might end up being a by product for those who already have off sitre storage, but might be appealing as an entry point to newer wine enthusiasts.

Regarding the club thing, obviously many Londoners go to the same place often, otherwise nobody would join any club when it is a very popular thing to do here, as far as I know.

Plenty of excellent ideas here, thank you again for taking the time.

Best,

Jon

[Jonathan_A_A]

‘This amounts to £2,736.96 / year. Considering you pay zero logistics on top of that, and your wine is right outside of zone 1, I don’t think my prices are as silly as you might think.’
Are you being serious? something like £700 would be normal.

£700 / year for 800 bottles for pure storage, with no logistics, in a giant warehouse, 2 hour drive from London, seems to be quite low, but yes, I am sure you could find a price like that. Do you drink your wine or just amass it in a bonded warehouse, with the intention of selling it or donate it to your kids? This is an important question, I am not being facetious.

My concept is for active drinkers, who want access to their wine quickly, efficiently, not waiting 3 days for a delivery. And who want the community aspect (don’t we all, we are members of a forum for something…) which I provide through the membership and the venue.

Also, how much do you need to add to those £700 for logistics, wine coming in, coming out, the odd bottle you need for a mid-week dinner, deliveries etc… Also do you need to file a form every time wine arrives? I would find that the biggest inconvenience… But then, I personally pay for more high end service in Paris and Geneva, and couldn’t find an equivalent in London, except Smith & Taylor which is outrageously expensive. You might want to pay less / bottle / year, that might be the most important criteria for you, which means… you might not be my customer. Can’t have them all

Anyway, thank you for your time replying, and for the “constructive” feedback.

Best,

Jon

Ridiculous. Like pretty much every other wine enthusiast I keep some of my wine at home, where it is instantly accessible when I want to drink it, taking delivery of my stored wine when I consider the time is right. I wish you well but your proposition is hopeless-do you really not understand the difference between a substantial address in Pall Mall and a restaurant in Shoreditch?

I don’t know how old you are or where you live Tom, but for many people, myself included, having dinner at Lyle’s or Brawn is a lot more exciting that having dinner anywhere in Mayfair, otherwise I would have already joined 67 PM. Obviously if it’s an hour in an uber for you, and you are my dad’s age, then it won’t be appealing at all. But there are enough people living in my neck of the woods with a little disposable income and an interest in wine, who might be able to afford my proposal.

You started saying that nobody goes to the same restaurant twice in a year, you obviously know that might be true for you but is not valid for many, especially those who pay £1,500 / year to join 67 PM… I sure hope they go at least once a month…

Anyway, enough feedback now, please go tell other members how “ridiculous” what they talk about is.

Jon

[Jonathan_A_A]

Ridiculous. Like pretty much every other wine enthusiast I keep some of my wine at home, where it is instantly accessible when I want to drink it, taking delivery of my stored wine when I consider the time is right. I wish you well but your proposition is hopeless-do you really not understand the difference between a substantial address in Pall Mall and a restaurant in Shoreditch?

It’s a little funny, eh. First he complains that we want to ‘educate [him] on storage’, and then he asks something like "Also do you need to file a form every time wine arrives? " - which if anyone had any experience of using UK bonded storage, the first thing you’d know is that - No, you dont have to file a form. It’s entirely paperwork free (for me as a customer). And for many merchants, logistics is free as well - I’d have to do an exhaustive check but off hand I can name a few merchants who do free delivery above certain price points, which are not unreasonable at all for a person who drinks nice wine (e.g. £100 minimum spend on BBR for free delivery IIRC).

I’d stress one last time the in bond nature - it’s a completely different game to what you get in the States, for example. I dont know about France or Switzerland, but if I go on the first hit on Google for Switzerland wine Storage - Wine vault - ARVI SA –The Swiss vault of fine and rare Wines - Online Shop - and put in 12 bottles worth 1000 CHF, that’s 8 CHF a month storage cost, and the price you pay is dependent on the wine you store. That’s (a) much more expensive and (b) value-dependent, unlike UK bonded storage.


As a side note OP, if you’re storing 5000 bottles of wine at the prices indicated above, you’d easily save maybe £6000 a year if you move them to a UK bonded warehouse. Might wanna look into it, just fyi!

Don’t worry about me, all my wine is being moved here before the end of the year, and will be stored at my venue when it opens early next year.

In the meantime, go have a drink with Tom and discuss how stupid me and my ideas are.

Jon

[HenryB]

Thank you Henry, fair enough, again this is maybe not for you, or anyone here for that matter. I am glad I know that. But, again, how does 67 Pall Mall get to 3,000 members paying up to £1,500 / year ? The club aspect might be appealing to some… Not to you, to each his own.

Best,

Jon

To be honest, I’m not a member, so I cant comment. Just looking over their benefits, though, it’s probably having a very diverse wine list where you can pay by-the-glass, and the access to their sommelier team. If those are the main perks of your club, then I’d almost scrap all mention of storage and inventory management - look at their website - Membership - 67 Pall Mall storage is left until the second last bullet point. Also they have the longevity, right? I feel like it’s every other day I hear about one of the wine merchants I use hosting an event or similar at their location. Looking over their events for the next TWO WEEKS alone, they’ve got Jasper Morris, Richard Hemming, Jane Anson alone talking about wines.

Personally, I’d probably not sign up to their services unless someone could articulate to me the value proposition (considering the price)… or made me a lot wealthier


If your intention is to be as event-focused as they are, then that’s brilliant - make sure you shift emphasis appropriately, because of your original post, I’d say half of them were commodity services that I can get anywhere realistically, and some of the others arent really benefits (e.g. You get the chance to book dinner at our restaurant! - No, I want a place guaranteed for me if I decide to come)


If you took my membership fee and gave it to me as a voucher every month for exclusive tastings/events (e.g. we’re doing a first growth tasting and you get a £60 rebate as you’re a member on what is a decent price anyway), then I’d probably be keen. That, or as mentioned before, you’re running an incredible restaurant that is otherwise very difficult to get in to without being a member.

I’m sure there are many other creative things one could do to entice me, just trying to provide a couple of examples

Cheers

Thank you Henry, all fo this makes sense. Seems like storage might end up being a by product for those who already have off sitre storage, but might be appealing as an entry point to newer wine enthusiasts.

Regarding the club thing, obviously many Londoners go to the same place often, otherwise nobody would join any club when it is a very popular thing to do here, as far as I know.

Plenty of excellent ideas here, thank you again for taking the time.

Best,

Jon

No problem at all. With a big push on cool events, interesting/unique tastings, and (to be honest) ideally some form of rebate on the membership fee - e.g. £60 voucher for wine purchasing, event ticket cost, or the restaurant meal - then it gets potentially quite interesting.