Love Richebourg, but what do I do?

[Matt_Fleming]

Look for producers with holdings in les Treux.

I think the notion that Les Treux is the best climat within Echézeaux has more to do with Henri Jayer telling people that (coincidentally, his vines were located there) than with any of its inherent properties.

Well, A) I never said it was the best – I haven’t tasted across the climats. and B) Jayer is a pretty good source for knowing which plots are best in Vosne and C) Jasper Morris seems to like les Treux as well.

[Robert_Sand]

I had a village la combe brulees this summer which was excellent though very light… still ageing the very few Brulees I have got.

Combe brulee is a Village site, so no surprise that it´s “light”.

Despite the fact that there is no real substitute for a Richebourg becaus the personality is too strong
imho the following could be tried:

• La Romanée (which is superior to Richebourg)
• Cros Parantoux (however even more expensive than Richebourg)
• Grands Echezeaux (more than Clos Vougeot)
• VR Petits Monts (more than Beaumonts, except Leroy which is in a class of its own)
• Aux Reignots (but getting more and more pricey)
• Aux Brulees, preferably Meo-Camuzet - others I find too obviously structured compared to Rb

[Howard_Cooper]

Agree best bet is Clos Vougeot, and Hudelot Noellat’s is quite similar although less multi faceted than his Richebourg.

Agree. HN make excellent Richebourg and RSV (at $700, much less than the $1000 discussed above, but still quite expensive). I buy the CV instead because of price. HN also makes excellent Beaumonts and Suchots.

[billnanson]

I had a village la combe brulees this summer which was excellent though very light… still ageing the very few Brulees I have got.

Combe brulee is a Village site, so no surprise that it´s “light”.

Despite the fact that there is no real substitute for a Richebourg becaus the personality is too strong
imho the following could be tried:

• La Romanée (which is superior to Richebourg)
• Cros Parantoux (however even more expensive than Richebourg)
• Grands Echezeaux (more than Clos Vougeot)
• VR Petits Monts (more than Beaumonts, except Leroy which is in a class of its own)
• Aux Reignots (but getting more and more pricey)
• Aux Brulees, preferably Meo-Camuzet - others I find too obviously structured compared to Rb

Nicely summarised…

[Gaudissabois_Johan]

Dear Sir Robert Sand,

I did not mean to propose something similar “taste-wise” to RICHEBOURG but “value-wise”. Of course there is a lot of difference between RICHEBOURG and LES SAINT GEORGES. but that is also true for Closs de Vougeot. If someone is looking for great wines offered at bargain (???) prices than maybe Nuits is the place to look. And do not tell me LSG isn’t great wine. And that is true for CHEVILLON’s CAILLES too. Many critics would agree.

SINCERELY JOHAN

[A_Songeur]

To each his own… and Pommard Rugiens if we go further away?

[Robert_Sand]

Dear Sir Robert Sand,

I did not mean to propose something similar “taste-wise” to RICHEBOURG but “value-wise”. Of course there is a lot of difference between RICHEBOURG and LES SAINT GEORGES. but that is also true for Closs de Vougeot. If someone is looking for great wines offered at bargain (???) prices than maybe Nuits is the place to look. And do not tell me LSG isn’t great wine. And that is true for CHEVILLON’s CAILLES too. Many critics would agree.

SINCERELY JOHAN

Didn´t know that I´ve been knighted …

The question was reg. Richebourg and an affordable substitute.
LSG can be great Burgundy and great value but is (imho) very different, far more different than CV, to RB

Value-wise we could name many more crus, from Savigny-LB to Beaune, to Pommard, to Volnay - and even MSD, but tha´s (imho) a different topic

[Howard_Cooper]

[

• La Romanée (which is superior to Richebourg)

OP asks for something like Richebourg but less expensive and this is your suggestion?

[Fred_Bower]

La Romanee used to be a better value play. I stashed a few into the cellar when it was. I totally have a soft spot for great Echezeaux. I do not compare it to Richebourg. Frankly, I’m not a huge fan of Richebourg and much prefer Romanee St. Vivant to it. This is probably why I don’t get Clos Vougeot. I almost always find it “woody” even when it doesn’t really have a heavy handed barrel regimen. I have a handful of Clos Vougeot in the cellar. I snag the occasional Richebourg, but have been a more regular purchaser of the Meo-Camuzet Brulees given its reputation and availability through my local source.

Cheers,
fred

[Robert_Sand]

[

• La Romanée (which is superior to Richebourg)

OP asks for something like Richebourg but less expensive and this is your suggestion?

Before you laugh your ass off: Bouchard LR can be found cheaper than any DRC or Leroy Rb, at least in Europe, and is superior to some Rb bottlings, always depending on vintage

[Gaudissabois_Johan]

dear Robert,

Liger Belair LR is much superior to the version made by BOUCHARD. Also had a CLOS FRANTIN version at the time but it did not match the Liger Bel Air either. Admittedly, our Vicomte has tripled the price as well. At he very least that is…

SINCERLY JOHAN

[Robert_Sand]

dear Robert,

Liger Belair LR is much superior to the version made by BOUCHARD. Also had a CLOS FRANTIN version at the time but it did not match the Liger Bel Air either. Admittedly, our Vicomte has tripled the price as well. At he very least that is…

SINCERLY JOHAN

I know LR by Liger-Belair is usually superior, and it 's 3000+ at the moment but that doesn’t mean that LR Bouchard is a bad wine, actually it is often better than a lot of RB bottllngs 1980 to 2005, so why not?

[Charlie_Carnes]

Not many Vosne 1ers with the Richebourg profile

Lalou once said something to the effect of Beaux Monts being the little brother of Richebourg, and there is lots of sense to it; but equally Leroy Beaux Monts is far from an affordable alternative.

But what a great wine!

[Gaudissabois_Johan]

FRIENDS,

Richebourg may be less expensive “chez” MONGEARD-MUGNERET. It does not always deliver but the wines I had were sometimes great. The domaine is, howevber, not regular enough for me to stay there as a client.I was until the 96 milllésime but then I stopped buying there each year. The 92’s were much more expensive than the better 91s which made me think. If you want RICHEBOURG at prices that are acceptable, however, then maybe this is your domaine. ??? Last remark: in spite of all this : I keep thinking that the best cuvée at MM’s is the GRANDS ECHEZEAUX ???
SINCERELY JOHAN

[Dan_Kravitz]

Richebourg has been out of my price range for… ever? But over the decades I’ve had quite a few, so am not doing this completely blind.

Grand Rue
Mongeard-Mugneret Grands Echezeaux
and yes, Clos Vougeot.

If you want to be shocked by ‘close but no cigar’, find a vintage of Bertagna Vougeot ‘Clos de la Perriere’ with considerable bottle age.

Dan Kravitz

[Howard_Cooper]

FRIENDS,

Richebourg may be less expensive “chez” MONGEARD-MUGNERET. It does not always deliver but the wines I had were sometimes great. The domaine is, howevber, not regular enough for me to stay there as a client.I was until the 96 milllésime but then I stopped buying there each year. The 92’s were much more expensive than the better 91s which made me think. If you want RICHEBOURG at prices that are acceptable, however, then maybe this is your domaine. ??? Last remark: in spite of all this : I keep thinking that the best cuvée at MM’s is the GRANDS ECHEZEAUX ???
SINCERELY JOHAN

My first Richebourgs were 1971s from the Domaine Clos Frantin. In fact, that is the first and last vintage of Richebourg I had from them. [These were my father’s wines that we had together in the 1980s.] How are these wines today compared with MM, in both price and quality?