See, this is the kind of advice that makes no sense to me. Unless the OP is much like you, the fact that these are staples in your cellar doesn’t matter (nor would it matter if I listed my faves, unless he was much like me). All of the people listing what they think Greg should get on are doing the same thing - “I like it, so you should be on this list” but it doesn’t matter what we like - we’re not him. If we tell him WHY we like them, that’s more information, but asking people you don’t know for wineries they like without them adding information about their palates and why they like the wines doesn’t actually provide information.
I take the point that some lists take years to get onto so you might as well start the clock ticking, but let me ask a different question - is there still value to being on a list? Peay, for example, is held up above as being hard to get on… but look at this Winesearcher results page: http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/peay/1/usa" onclick=“window.open(this.href);return false; or this saxum page: http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/saxum/1/usa” onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The only reason I can see for being on a list at all at this point is to be able to get highly highly allocated wines on release. What I’d do with the list on this thread is to find examples of the wines at retail and try them, i.e. use this as a starting point for things to try.
And honestly, if someone told me they like Chardonnay, Pinot Noir and Syrah, I’d encourage them to try examples from everywhere, not just Cali or the US. Try red and white Burgs from Pernand, Savigny, Beaune, etc. Try cool climate Oz Shirazes, Northern Rhones, etc. Try some of these with age on them if you’re looking to cellar in order to age (vs having a stash that’s 1-5 years old). Then compare to what’s available in California, Oregon and Washington. Spend the next couple of years figuring out not what some random sampling of wine board people like but what YOU like. We’re not paying for your collection after all.
Rick, he asked for some suggestions, we gave them. Look, I can´t offer him any suggestion outside of CA as I don´t own the wines. I have only recently begun to buy Burgundy on my own and taste them, but I certainly can´t offer him advice on that, nor Italy, nor anywhere else. I drink CA, this is what I know, so I can speak with confidence about the wines. As to your point about there being value to being on a list…there is, as I can support the winery directly and to your point, I can get some of the bottles that cannot be had in retail. As to a good point you made about why someone would offer these specific selections, I´ll dive some info on that below–that adds context for Greg:
Copain–really peeling back what CA pinot and syrah can be, push the limits. The pinots are fresh and the syrahs have mineral and earthier notes, both are showing lower alcohols. An exciting mailing list to join–sorry, I said it.
Novy–Adam marries a CA style with very fair prices and what I like about Adam is that he seems to keep trying to perfect the wines.
August West–I have often said that Ed Kurtzman is a magician, getting lighter weights and feminine expression with a killer fruit profile. The wines are a treat to drink, they are lithe and yet at the same time, are CA in flavors.
Lucia–I like these wines year after year, as they offer deep color, and an evolution of style. They have good punch and they leave me feeling like I just drank captured SLH syrah.
Loring–Brian was the first winemaker that dropped by my house in the early days. He brought a bag full of CA pinots that I had never tried, and a couple of his own. He makes a style of pinot that he likes, yet he too is evolving. He´s always been a staple for my cellar of the CA pinot style that is fruit forward.
Greg, I trust this adds some context for you.
Greg:
I would also recommend tasting/buying these wines before you join a mailing list. There are a few wineries where it may take a few years on the wait list to move up. For Pinot, some good examples have already been mentioned; Dehlinger, Rochioli, and KB. For Cabernet, I would recommend trying Rafanelli, Larkmead, Lewelling, and Robert Craig. Most of these can be found at retail close to the mailing list price, with the exception of Rafanelli, which is typically sold only to the mailing list and restaurants. For Chardonnay, my favorites are widely distributed at retail, and they are Mount Eden Estate, Forman and Ridge. For Rhone varietals, there have been a lot of excellent choices already, including Carlisle.
My disclaimer is that I have been been on the mailing list for Rafanelli, Ridge and Carlisle for several years.
Thanks,
Ed.
My experience from my near recent entry into wine collecting (about 8 years ago) was never that I fell into a trap of buying from mailing lists and ended up with crap I didn’t like. I signed up for a number of lists, mostly after reading high review scores in the wine advocate, but was smart enough to try before I bought or bought small to start if it was too hard to find. In the case of Harlan, the price increases made it out of my range when I was finally offered many years after signing up. The mistake I did make was finding a wine I liked at a tasting event and buying cases of it and then a couple years later finding out my tastes changed and I no longer really loved this wine yet still had a lot of it. Ex: Way too many high alcohol Aussie Shiraz I still have that I really don’t want to drink anymore but thought were great at a tasting so loaded up on. I had a friend warn me of this so I quickly recognized to curb my enthusiasm but of all the pitfalls a new collector runs into I think that one is the one to worry about rather than signing up for mailing lists. Buying 3 bottles from a mailing list of a well-made wine is not going to dampen my collection if I later don’t enjoy it as much as somebody who recommended it to me did. I wouldn’t back up the truck on it or anything for a few years until the taste buds stabilize and in this regard trying a lot of things is helpful I completely agree. Even there it took me years to like Italian wines but now I am very fond of them.
Now, I am a bit weird about this but for some reason, I am very paranoid about buying from every place on the internet I find say Lewelling offered. I have read too many horror stories of wines returned to the store because it was shipped during hot weather and the buyer rejected it and sent it back. I put a premium on buying from the source. I certainly don’t make it a high premium such that I would pay more from a wine list than I can find at retail but it being on a list and getting from the source is something I value.
Greg,
For Cabernet I recommend signing up to:
Lewelling
Karl Lawrence
Rivers-Marie
frank,
Yeah, I realize where you’re coming from. My comments are as much to the OP and any lurkers like him as to you and other people leaving suggestions. However, I don’t think suggestions (Cali, Italian, whatever) can be useful if we don’t know what Greg likes and/or we don’t list why we like a wine. Just a bare list of producers doesn’t do that unless Greg knows that person’s palate from other posts.
Mostly, I’d say avoid lists unless there’s some unique benefit or need. Keep your budget less allocated, and try to do some backfilling. When my 2007 Ridge Monte Bello arrived this March, I was really exited for a bit. Now I have to wait 7 years or so to crack the first bottle. That’s extreme, but you will end up buying stuff you really don’t want to drink for 3-5 years.
If you live somewhere with less wide-open available selection, that makes lists more useful. Still, while its fun to buy something that’s hard to find at retail, you can end up having a hard time keeping up, either because you want to buy too much wine off the lists, or even have to buy too much to stay there or get what you want.
If I were to start new, I’d still do Siduri/Novy; there’s no pressure to buy anything, and there are some nice specials. I’d also probably keep Linne Calodo; they are very unique, ready to drink immediately, and you’re only talking 12 bottles a year required.
If you’re retail access is bad, as for Pinot, I think Ketcham Estate has some of the best priced pinot out there, and I was recently really impressed by Zepaltas’ line-up (the winemaker, Ryan Zepaltas, is also the assistant at Siduri/Novy). I’m not much help on Cabs.
As others have said, I think the larger question is which waiting lists to get on. I’m personally not sold on bothering with Marcassin, but that’s because I don’t love Martinelli. But Carlisle and SQN are no brainers. The one I’d add is Saxum, though I’m not sure how long the wait is.
I think Rick’s point, as I read it, is good in that you shouldn’t sign up for any lists (or buy any wine, in quantity, for that matter) unless you know you like the wine. I made the mistake of following a friend’s advice and bought value-priced wines with good Wine Spectator ratings, and planned to hold them for 5 or more years. When I finally started to taste the wines, I realized I didn’t like a lot of them. I should have tried all those wines (and others) and then focused on the wines I enjoy.
That said, I believe that there’s no harm in signing up for SQN, Cayuse, Aubert, etc., but spend a few bucks to try one (or more) of them before you end up on the list and are faced with a decision to potentially spend thousands of dollars on a wine that you may not like. Then you can ignore the offer when you get it (or even write and ask to be removed, which would be the “right” thing to do if you know a winery’s style doesn’t align with your palate).
All the best,
Mark
Greg, what area of CA do you live in? Aside from sourcing bottles with a bit of age, and visiting the wineries, there are all sorts of wine events where you can try many of these wines.