Elouan=Meomi. Never going to try that. Ever. Ask someone on your block. They probably have.
I was at a tasting over the weekend and struck up a conversation with a manager of a local wine distributor. He brought up Meomi and I stated it was not my style of PN. He said to try Eloun, “it is completely different”.
Not really and that is my point.
The guy made millions. I wish I had owned the company.
But it’s like MacDonald’s. I would never eat one but I wish I’d bought into the company back in the 1960s.
If you sell Meiomi for hundreds of millions, why would you start something that’s entirely different? Do the same thing again and make another few hundred million.
And you only make that because you’re producing something that many people like. Life could be worse.
You are asking two distinct questions here. 1. It’s probably not terribly important to any of us. 2. As for what difference it makes: Knowing there were or were not those things in some cheap Joe Wagner pinot contributes to a greater understanding of wine. I perceive a meaningful difference between a 100% Pinot bottling and one that is 75% Pinot and 25% Syrah. That having been said, you’re right that it wouldn’t likely make any difference in the buying patterns of most folks here.
I find this to be an interesting statement. I don’t know what your tastes run to, but I am sure I could find 100 under $30 pinots that tasted like pinot without trying very hard. Most wouldn’t suffer from a lack of varietal character, but might lack depth or interest. For instance, take Bourgogne rouge: it almost always tastes like pinot noir, but it can often be too lean and sharply acidic. Even so, from the right producers in good years, these can be very good. Less chic communes also fall into that price point sometimes. Oregon is an even better example, as many, many producers make an entry-level wine under $30, and perhaps one or two levels above that. Again, these may or may not be something you like, particularly if you don’t like wines on the more red-fruited side of the spectrum, but if they don’t taste like pinot noir than I don’t know what does.
One thing not discussed here thus far is that Meomi was known for freezing at least some of their grapes. What effect does that have?
Adam Lee
Clarice Wine Company.
Freezing like icewine to remove water for more concentration?
Exactly.
Adam Lee
Clarice Wine Company
Did he get the idea from Randall??
Wouldn t it be expensive to freeze grapes? Aren’t there concentrators for sale?? You could get one used in Bordeaux.
I’ve only had Meomi a few times and I’ve found ita little boring. Perhaps I was expecting something that came in a ketchup bottle.
MP: Are there any new winemaking techniques that you’ve experimented with?
JW: We have been toying with “cryo-extraction” for about a decade now with amazing success. Ultimately, our goal is to extract only skin tannin, and mitigate seed characters, which can be green and astringent. When freezing (cryo-extraction) the grapes, the cell walls of the skins burst open making more color, phenolics (mouthfeel components), flavors, and aromatics accessible. Along with this process, we don’t need to overwork the extraction in the fermentation where seeds could lend some negative character. It has been a fantastic way to make great red wines, but we are still working on how to make the process more efficient. There is always something new coming up, and this is one we are still just scratching the surface on.
That’s standard practice for making wine from stone fruit. It beaks down the cell walls, so it’s maceration method. Basically a very gentle way of getting everything out of the grapes.
Hi,
We experimented with freezing Pinot a couple years ago (2016 vintage). Its essentially instant extraction as well as very slightly increased yields compared to traditional methods. It did change the feel/texture a bit, which I’m not sure if part of that was the stem inclusion. As far as costs, from my memory it was more expensive to truck it than to freeze the 2 bins. We didn’t repeat in 2017, and for those wondering it ended up being a very small (i.e. less than 1%) part of our Russian River Pinot noir blend.
Regards,
Brian Maloney
DeLoach and Buena Vista
You’re confusing bleed off with free run. Free run is post fermentation. Think if you dumped all of the must into a press. It’s all the liquid that runs through (freely), like it you were putting it through a strainer. It’s a significant majority of the yield.
Interesting. I’ve always been told free run was the juice that came from the weight of the grapes crushing themselves before the fruit was pressed. I always thought the bleed off was just the process of removing that juice when you didn’t want it, which is most cases for reds.
Me too. Learned something today. Thanks Wes.
Free Run for whites = juice generated from berries as they crush themselves under their own weight, prior to pressing.
Free Run for reds = wine generated prior to pressing from the must.
Saignee/bleeding = juice from red grapes, pulled at the sorting table (prior to destemming/crushing) or at the fermentor (after destemming/crushing)
Hope that helps clarify,
Brian
Wow - thanks, Wes and Mr. Maloney! I was wondering if I had lost it. Not wishing to come under fire for what I do, I kept my mouth shut.
But what the heck - it’s Friday.
I grow and make a very small amount of Cabernet - average of 175 cases (or 7 barrels) per vintage. I typically make a Special Selection and a “regular.” The SS is SOME parts of SOME barrels.
In order to make this a significant endeavor, I mix the free run with the press. (The cellar guys were REALLY mad the year I saw them going straight to barrel without mixing, and I made them back it all the out and start over.) Because I keep each barrel “true” throughout the entire 22 months in barrel, to have a barrel or two of press and the rest free run does not make sense. The difference in the wines from each barrel is due to the cooper and the number of times I use a barrel. Anyone who has done a sit-down with me and tasted samples from each barrel concurs there are significant differences from barrel to barrel.
But I do not make Pinot Noir and I do not use Mega-Purple. I enhanced my 2011 with a legal 5% from another vintage (2012, so it was young and robust).
Merrill,
I think you should start freezing your grapes.
Later, use raspberry jello for fining.
Also, start making pinot noir…
M
Another thing: I think you should start a vineyard by planting seeds, preferably on well drained soil in an area where they get 12 inches of rain per year.
Also: everyone is canning their wine…why not you??
Enough of this so-called tradition. If they had had aluminum cans in Samuel Pepys’ time, they would have used them!
If you get away from the mass market wine, I would suspect there is more Mega Purple used with Cabernet than with Pinot Noir.
-Al