More shipping stupidity

[Howard_Cooper]

I got to be honest, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that every shipment is preceded with a notice or an exchange of “is it ok to ship now, are you going to be home between these and these dates, are the temperatures to your liking?”. That’s implied by the order.

As an example, on BerserkerDay I had 300 shipments that needed to get out. It takes me and my wife over two weeks just to package all of that and ship it. Imagine if we’d have to double check with every buyer if they’re going to be home, or if they’re cool with us shipping now, make sure they’re not on vacation, if there are any temperatures along any potential route that might not be ideal - we’d still be at it. Each interaction could easily take up to an hour, maybe more - that’s 300 man hours. And how would you you do it? Call? Email? Hold shipment until someone responds, even if wx is perfect? What if it ended up in spam folder? What if I never get a response? What if they didn’t give any contact details?

I of course try to as much as I can, but it’s just not realistic for every shipment of wine. Sure, if you’re shipping DRC across the country from a specialized retailer that charges accordingly for it, then they can probably take the time to do so, but regular smaller producers don’t have the luxury of spending hours and days on each shipment, or to anticipate every permeable route FedEx might take where there might be temperatures above 70 degrees. We can either make wine, or spend it on logistics.

This is why I have really cut down on wine shipments since I retired. It was one thing to have wine shipped to my office when I was working. If I was on vacation, my secretary would get the wine put into a secure place until I got back. Now, I hardly get wine shipped to me anymore and only get it shipped from places that use FedEx so that I can have the wine shipped to a local Walgreens that has a FedEx place inside it and not have to wait at home all day for the FedEx delivery. Even with that, I only get wine that will be shipped immediately, so I don’t have to worry about wine coming when I am away.

[James_Guthri3]

In my view, the best practice is for wine shops/wineries to have both:

a) Their own weather-related shipping standards, whereby they won’t ship within especially hot or cold windows unless you sign a waiver, AND
b) An option at purchase to have the wine held for some period of time, only to be shipped after the purchaser contacts the winery (charging for storage after 6 months if needed).

This way the default is that the wine shop/winery can ship when they think it is safe, but gives the consumer the option of holding.

Are you willing to pay any additional cost for such individualized service?

I don’t see this as much in the way of individualized service - they ship out probably 90% of their packages when they think it’s safe to do so, and hold the rest until the consumer contacts them, charging monthly storage after a defined period. But to answer your question, I’d pay more to buy from a shop that offered this arrangement than one that I knew would ship as soon as I ordered the wine, even if it was the middle of a heat wave.

[Jay_Winton]

Another reason why I very rarely buy wine from the left coast.

[Arv_R]

Reading the thread more carefully, I don’t think putting custom shipping instructions in the ‘order notes’ section is really a valid request. If the merchant had some kind of box one could check that said ‘hold til shipping requested’ then that would have been more obviously a service they were offering. A request on an internet/email blank space box for text is realistically not going to be seen/honored by a shipping dept.

I have actually noticed that most of the retailers I deal with do not offer a ‘custom notes’ section, likely to avoid these kinds of problems. They have some kind of rules for their HTS options, as well as shipping defaults, and those are what their shipping depts are set up to follow best.

Personally, I have drastically cut down the number of (online) retailers I deal with, using only 5, which just one out of state. But I am much more sensitive to ‘hold’ policies than most.

[Dale_Bowers]

Reading the thread more carefully, I don’t think putting custom shipping instructions in the ‘order notes’ section is really a valid request. If the merchant had some kind of box one could check that said ‘hold til shipping requested’ then that would have been more obviously a service they were offering. A request on an internet/email blank space box for text is realistically not going to be seen/honored by a shipping dept.

I have actually noticed that most of the retailers I deal with do not offer a ‘custom notes’ section, likely to avoid these kinds of problems. They have some kind of rules for their HTS options, as well as shipping defaults, and those are what their shipping depts are set up to follow best.

Personally, I have drastically cut down the number of (online) retailers I deal with, using only 5, which just one out of state. But I am much more sensitive to ‘hold’ policies than most.

Good point,

However, many retailers I purchase from don’t give that as an option. Only option is in the order notes. If they don’t read them , why have them?

[Scott_Jameson]

I got to be honest, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that every shipment is preceded with a notice or an exchange of “is it ok to ship now, are you going to be home between these and these dates, are the temperatures to your liking?”. That’s implied by the order.

As an example, on BerserkerDay I had 300 shipments that needed to get out. It takes me and my wife over two weeks just to package all of that and ship it. Imagine if we’d have to double check with every buyer if they’re going to be home, or if they’re cool with us shipping now, make sure they’re not on vacation, if there are any temperatures along any potential route that might not be ideal - we’d still be at it. Each interaction could easily take up to an hour, maybe more - that’s 300 man hours. And how would you you do it? Call? Email? Hold shipment until someone responds, even if wx is perfect? What if it ended up in spam folder? What if I never get a response? What if they didn’t give any contact details?

I of course try to as much as I can, but it’s just not realistic for every shipment of wine. Sure, if you’re shipping DRC across the country from a specialized retailer that charges accordingly for it, then they can probably take the time to do so, but regular smaller producers don’t have the luxury of spending hours and days on each shipment, or to anticipate every permeable route FedEx might take where there might be temperatures above 70 degrees. We can either make wine, or spend it on logistics.

I don’t order from many wineries anymore but every one I do business with does confirm that I’ll be available and the weather is OK before shipping to me. I wouldn’t do business with one that doesn’t care to check these days, especially given the variability in both weather and shipping times.

[larry_schaffer]

It’s a challenge. Period. And even when all best efforts are made, stuff happens . . .

Cheers

[Arv_R]

Good point,

However, many retailers I purchase from don’t give that as an option. Only option is in the order notes. If they don’t read them , why have them?

I think its just that order entry / management system probably had that as some default, and as a practical matter they don’t care enough to read the notes.

Some retailers will even advise that they will freely switch vintages on wines when they are below a certain price threshold, which presumably order notes might a place to advise about ‘ok to switch random CA chardonnay, not ok to switch out some GC burg’

Generically it feels like a lot of the value package that vendors offer is being broken down more carefully, and parts being taken away if the vendor thinks they can pull it off. As labor continues to tighten, I just don’t see that changing.

The only response is voting with dollars, leave accurate reviews where it can influence, and being understanding where inevitable/inadvertant issues flare up. I’m sure I’ll fail the latter plenty more times this year myself!

[dougwilder]

Sometimes the blame isn’t with the originator. I’ve sent wines that end up missing deliveries or the carrier has delays en route. We just started using FEDEX Cold Chain for the most part in the Southern states. Delivery is by 10:30 AM, or 2:30PM the day after it arrives refrigerated at the hub following the non-stop transit. An important question to consider is if the wine is that hot, is it leaking? If not, imagine if the box wasn’t opened immediately. What clues would you look for to suggest it had ever been hot?

[Gray_G]

glad someone started a topic for “shipping”
some many weird posts about it
these days their ae so many “shipping” expectations LOL
imagine if you couldn’t have wine shipped???

[ChrisJames]

Thanks for posting this. A lot of producers and high volume retailers are in a similar situation. Still, I think it’s important to be careful about when wine is shipped. Anything going from the West Coast to Colorado or anywhere south of there is likely to go through some very high temperatures right now. So, if no consent is given, I would say it is not shipping season for those locations. One can have reasonable expectations about shipping conditions and still be understanding about the large amount of time it takes to do the shipping.

Agreed. I do my best to try to find cooler temps and windows etc. But there are certain places, like Florida, where technically there are perhaps only 2 days per year where you can ship…

My philosophy is that I can accept a little warmer in SoCal region if it’s going towards a cooler Eastern region. Most of the freight goes out at night on trucks and will most likely hit the Rockies by next day, which is higher altitude and generally cooler, and by 2nd day should be well into the flatlands and heading East where temps are rarely as bad. But AZ and TX at this time of year, is a real problem. And FL is always a problem.

Going the other direction, I’d like to order from Champagne from B-21 but the safe shipping window from FL seems to be razor thin.

[Bill_Johnson]

Business have their models; I have mine. I buy only from places that will hold my wine until I contact them to ship it.

[Jeff_M1]

I got to be honest, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that every shipment is preceded with a notice or an exchange of “is it ok to ship now, are you going to be home between these and these dates, are the temperatures to your liking?”. That’s implied by the order.

I won’t disagree with this, however it is beyond reckless to ship anything that isn’t overnighted with cold packs in this weather. May to late October, wine shouldn’t be shipping from CA across deserts.

[Adam_Frisch]

I’m curious - which wineries or retailers engage and ask you if they can ship or hold shipment automatically until you tell them to ship? I’m on a lot of winery emailing lists and I’ve never encountered that. They say “shipping weather permitting”, but nobody has ever directly contacted me and asked specifically if I’m home or OK to receive. Not being confrontational, just genuinely curious who does this?

Many, many wineries have their spring releases this month - are we saying they’re being irresponsible?

[David_Wright]

So you are asking “which wineries care if you receive undamaged goods, and which ones don’t”?

Thanks for letting us know where you stand on this, Adam.

[Raciel_Porto]

I’m curious - which wineries or retailers engage and ask you if they can ship or hold shipment automatically until you tell them to ship? I’m on a lot of winery emailing lists and I’ve never encountered that. They say “shipping weather permitting”, but nobody has ever directly contacted me and asked specifically if I’m home or OK to receive. Not being confrontational, just genuinely curious who does this?

Many, many wineries have their spring releases this month - are we saying they’re being irresponsible?

in recent experience, iOTA Cellars.
After my BD-13 purchase this year, i got this email a few weeks later:

"Thanks again for your WineBerserkers Day purchase! The weather window is looking good right now for shipping your package out this, Monday, February 28th for delivery to your residence by the end of the week/early next. (You’ll also receive a tracking Email with a more accurate date of arrival.) Please confirm that you or another individual will be available to receive it, since an adult signature will be required. Also happy to ship your package to a FedEx outlet near you, if picking up may be more convenient. Just let me know your preference.

Kind regards,
Johanna Sandberg
iOTA Cellars"



So yeah, some wineries do confirm before shipping.

[Noah_C]

I got to be honest, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that every shipment is preceded with a notice or an exchange of “is it ok to ship now, are you going to be home between these and these dates, are the temperatures to your liking?”. That’s implied by the order.

As an example, on BerserkerDay I had 300 shipments that needed to get out. It takes me and my wife over two weeks just to package all of that and ship it. Imagine if we’d have to double check with every buyer if they’re going to be home, or if they’re cool with us shipping now, make sure they’re not on vacation, if there are any temperatures along any potential route that might not be ideal - we’d still be at it. Each interaction could easily take up to an hour, maybe more - that’s 300 man hours. And how would you you do it? Call? Email? Hold shipment until someone responds, even if wx is perfect? What if it ended up in spam folder? What if I never get a response? What if they didn’t give any contact details?

I of course try to as much as I can, but it’s just not realistic for every shipment of wine. Sure, if you’re shipping DRC across the country from a specialized retailer that charges accordingly for it, then they can probably take the time to do so, but regular smaller producers don’t have the luxury of spending hours and days on each shipment, or to anticipate every permeable route FedEx might take where there might be temperatures above 70 degrees. We can either make wine, or spend it on logistics.

Adam, you have a good point. I wouldn’t expect a small producer like yourself to call or email every customer before each shipment. But there are a few difference between your situation and what I’m describing in this case.

1. I was buying from a wine retailer. Their entire job is selling wine, so I think it’s reasonable to expect a bit more time and effort on their part when it comes to arranging shipping.

2. This is a retailer that offers a “weather hold” option, as well as a “consolidate order” option. Therefore, they should have the ability to hold orders for some time. If they don’t have that capability, then they shouldn’t offer that service at checkout.

3. I don’t think anyone here is asking for a personal email or phone call asking for permission to ship every single order. I’m no shipping expert, but it seems reasonable for an automated email to be sent a few days before the shipment goes out. An email saying, “we’re about to ship your wine, let us know if we shouldn’t do that” would be sufficient. Had I gotten an email like this, I definitely would have asked them to wait.

I think the other part that is particularly irritating is that I had opted to consolidate and hold bottles. I’ve been occasionally adding a bottle or two to the order over several months. Then all of a sudden, when it’s hot and sunny out, I get an email, “you’re wine has been shipped”. I hadn’t accumulated a full case, and hadn’t even ordered anything for several weeks. I’m not even sure what triggered the shipment. Besides it being too hot out, I could have been out of town or unable to receive a shipment for any number of reasons. It’s not like I just placed an order and was expecting it to come. I had explicitly requested that the order be held. But they sent it anyway, without warning, during hot weather, and the bottles were cooked.

[Noah_C]

I got to be honest, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that every shipment is preceded with a notice or an exchange of “is it ok to ship now, are you going to be home between these and these dates, are the temperatures to your liking?”. That’s implied by the order.

As an example, on BerserkerDay I had 300 shipments that needed to get out. It takes me and my wife over two weeks just to package all of that and ship it. Imagine if we’d have to double check with every buyer if they’re going to be home, or if they’re cool with us shipping now, make sure they’re not on vacation, if there are any temperatures along any potential route that might not be ideal - we’d still be at it. Each interaction could easily take up to an hour, maybe more - that’s 300 man hours. And how would you you do it? Call? Email? Hold shipment until someone responds, even if wx is perfect? What if it ended up in spam folder? What if I never get a response? What if they didn’t give any contact details?

I of course try to as much as I can, but it’s just not realistic for every shipment of wine. Sure, if you’re shipping DRC across the country from a specialized retailer that charges accordingly for it, then they can probably take the time to do so, but regular smaller producers don’t have the luxury of spending hours and days on each shipment, or to anticipate every permeable route FedEx might take where there might be temperatures above 70 degrees. We can either make wine, or spend it on logistics.

Adam, you have a good point. I wouldn’t expect a small producer like yourself to call or email every customer before each shipment. But there are a few difference between your situation and what I’m describing in this case.

1. I was buying from a wine retailer. Their entire job is selling wine, so I think it’s reasonable to expect a bit more time and effort on their part when it comes to arranging shipping.

2. This is a retailer that offers a “weather hold” option, as well as a “consolidate order” option. Therefore, they should have the ability to hold orders for some time. If they don’t have that capability, then they shouldn’t offer that service at checkout.

3. I don’t think anyone here is advocating for a personal email or phone call asking for permission to ship every single order. I’m no shipping expert, but it seems reasonable for an automated email to be sent a few days before the shipment goes out. An email saying, “we’re about to ship your wine, let us know if we shouldn’t do that” would be sufficient. Had I gotten an email like this, I definitely would have asked them to wait.

I think the other part that is particularly irritating is that I had opted to consolidate and hold bottles. I’ve been occasionally adding a bottle or two to the order over several months. Then all of a sudden, when it’s hot and sunny out, I get an email from UPS with a shipment tracking number. I wasn’t even sure what it was for initially. I hadn’t accumulated a full case, and hadn’t even ordered anything for several weeks. I’m not even sure what triggered the shipment. Besides it being too hot out, I could have been out of town or unable to receive a shipment for any number of reasons. It’s not like I had just placed an order and was it expecting it to come. In fact, I had explicitly requested that the order be held. But they sent it anyway, without warning, during hot weather, and the bottles were cooked. So I still feel justified in my irritation!

[Alan_Comroe]

I can come up with a lot of examples of wineries checking before they ship. A quick search of my emails showed Boheme, Di Costanzo, and Lewelling

[MChang]

The absolute worst company for this is Zachy’s. They pretty much tell you they can’t control exactly what date an order is shipped. I would never request they ship unless the temperatures for weeks around when your request is put in are perfect. They shipped and had a few k in wine cooked and had to refund me. Hopefully they didn’t sell it to someone else but who knows.