I havre a simple system for note taking A,B,C. A would definitely buy, B, maybe, C never. I don’t try to take elaborate notes especially if it is a big trade tasting. Do remember to step away after a sniff and sip and spit.I try to make a plan but often find the tables to be changed after the event starts. I have had events where some of the pourers don’t show.
I very much echo the need to understand why you want to take notes. Options include
- which wines interested you enough to want to buy or at least try again
- to write some notes to understand the style and differences within specific appellations
- to write some notes to put on ct or elsewhere to aide memory
It isn’t the most reliable sort of place to get a great perspective on a wine, so any notes I take tend to include a clear caveat. Much as I dislike the 80-100 point scale, in this scenario it becomes even flimsier in the amount of trust I would place in even my own opinions. If I were scoring I would probably revert to a simple three star scale, from no stars for something that had little appeal, perhaps one star for a wine that might be of interest on a weak wine list, two for something to keep an eye out for, and three something to look up on ws to find where I can buy it.
Drinking rather than spitting is perfectly acceptable, but yes it will have an effect on your judgement. Water, water biscuits and the odd break make great sense, but also important to recognise you’ll often taste a fraction of what is there. You absolutely don’t need to drink all that is in the glass, and typically I tend to have 2-3 sips with the rest poured away, so I actively prefer small pours as it is a necessary shame to ditch the excess in most instances. At a large tasting there may only be 2-3 wines where I don’t pour any away becuase it is too nice.
If taking notes, and I do, it can’t be an essay, so aim for a Broadbent length tn, by picking out the key words and filling in the gaps when back at the computer. We aren’t blessed with three hands, so I do use some glass carriers I picked up over the years, an Aussie one that looks a little like a catapult, where the stem sits snugly in a gap to form a cradle, or an Italian glass sack, both hang around the neck to leave both hands free for writing and holding the pad / brochure.
Table etiquette is a good thing to observe, with moving away, or at least to the side of the table, something to do very deliberately.
Bear in mind that your taste buds will start to desensitize with the coarse of the tasting. After consuming a large number of samples it will be difficult to distinguish nuisances. That is particularly of importance when tasting heavier full body wines and fortified ones like port. I therefore pick what I would like to taste and start with the lighter ones first and work my way up the scale.
Taking detailed notes is a big distraction from enjoying the wines and interact with likeminded folks. I met some very nice people by chatting them up and talk about their experiences an impressions. Don’t burry your head into your note pad all night, take only brief notes when deemed necessary.
I am a tall guy and found it always difficult and awkward to bow down to the spitoon, most of the time bumping into a person behind me. So I bring a coffee cup which also allows for later transfer should it be out of reach.
Whatever you do, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY after you get your sample to allow others to enjoy.
Top advice. Some people take extensive notes, only to get home and wonder why they spent all that time writing. One of the disadvantages of taking massive notes is that it cuts down on the time you have to taste other wines.
I typically write down a few notes on the wines that stand out–no point writing down extensive notes on wines that were just “meh.” For the wines that really stood out–either great quality, or great value–I may mark them with a star or two.
Besides the advice to spit everything, consider a game plan for the order in which you taste. If you burn out your palate early with a lot of heavy, tannic reds, you may miss some of the subtle aspects of lighter white wines. Indeed, one challenge of large tasting events is that more elegant/subtle wines can get lost in the mix.
Most people, when starting out, can only effectively taste a limited number of wines at these events–perhaps a dozen or so. So it’s a good idea to prioritize what you want to taste.
Oh, and have fun!
Bruce
This seems like the most key comment in the thread. Start with what your reason is. Are you posting notes on WB or CT after? Is your goal to remember what to buy later? Are you just doing it to improve your focus on your tasting? Do you just enjoy taking notes? Do you just feel obliged but really don’t need and want to take notes?
If you figure out your purpose, you can figure out what extent and type of note taking makes sense, and whether you can or can’t bail on it if it proves to be too much hassle.
Reach out to Rich Trimpi - he is a master at this!
Much good advice here, I’d add just a few things.
At big tastings with reds and whites, I taste through the whites first. Take a break, eat some food, drink some water, then start on the reds. At the recent SF La Paulee they offered one champagne (Salon) so I used that as a palate refresher as well.
Wait!!?? Which is better, reds first or whites? It really depends on your palate, so you are going to have to do some experiments. There is no one answer. But frequent food and water breaks is a fantastic idea.
How many can you taste in one session? Again no right answer. Yes I tasted about a 100 wines in 3 hours at La Paulee. It was an amazing experience. Some people can taste a lot of wines (and burgs are not as palate impacting as some things) in one go, others cannot. And wines vary. At a 2010 Brunello event I was done after about 10 wines. You’ll have to learn how to pace yourself.
If you want examples of notes search here for ‘La Paulee 2018’ - at least 3 of us have posted some notes. For me, I use just a few brief descriptors, and my rating systems is 4 steps from - (didn’t like it), no rating (ok), + (good) to ++ (excellent). If I find a producer I especially like that I’d never see this before I might write BUY THIS on the page as a reminder.
Otherwise, spit, be polite, and have fun. You’re at a wine tasting, life is good!
I see some conflicting ideas about tasting order of reds and whites, so I’ll weigh in. I’ve been to a lot of these things. I taste everything I want to at each table and then move on. I try to hit the tables in a way that makes sense (Burgundy early on, domestic wines later, etc), but I find my palate gets fatigued a lot faster if I’m tasting all reds or all whites vs. going back and forth a lot. Plus, that way I don’t have to try to remember which tables I wanted to go back to, which is almost impossible to keep track of. When I really need a palate cleanser, I’ll taste some sparkling wine (Cava is great for this). I’m sure this is different for different people, but I’ve tried a lot of different approaches, and going back and forth between whites and reds throughout the tasting definitely works best for me.
Also, keep in mind that you can’t fully evaluate a wine and listen to someone talk at the same time. I mostly ignore the people pouring. There are a few exceptions, mostly winemakers, but the people with something useful to say about the wines usually also know to shut up and let you taste when you raise the glass to your face. It’s important to learn to tune out the vast majority of pourers who will blab on and on about nothing.
Thanks for your really helpful comments. Do you mind expanding on this, e.g. what are the advantages of tasting whites last?
Thanks to all for a wealth of fantastic tips and ideas. I particularly liked the notion of deciding what I wanted to get out of my notes. In my case, I’d love to capture what I learn but at the end of the day I will be purchasing wine so perhaps that should be my focus. I’ll experiment at home with the techniques you all suggested and see what works for me the most.
I wrote the question generally to apply your suggestions beyond my more immediate need, but the event I’m attending soon is the Salon des Vins des Vignerons Indépendants in Paris, in case anyone has been there and would like to share tips. I have done tastings before (20, 50 wines) but this will be an event with some 400 producers so just thinking about that got me overwhelmed (the map gives you an idea: https://www.vigneron-independant.com/sites/default/files/salon/plan/Plan%20Champerret%202018.pdf). I have looked into the producers and have compiled my list of top interests, which I’ll tackle my first day, and then if time permits get to others as well on day 2, etc. Even though there are only French producers, I may adapt GregT and Doug Schulman’s regional/theme approach - maybe just divided by regions, perhaps starting with the cooler climates that produce more subtle wines so as not to tire my palate - and take breaks in between those.
I used to try to plan my route through a tasting event. I might still take that approach for a smaller, less crowded event where you can hit all or most of the tables. But, at the very large tastings I found that it didn’t work very well. Now, I make a short list of “must visit” producers but otherwise tend to systematically walk around the area, being selective at where I stop on the first pass and then go back around to fill in.
I switch between whites and reds and back. Not ideal, but not as bad as is sounds since you’re taking small tastes and spitting. It also helps refresh the palate.
One exception was a large Family Winemakers event some years ago that I attended on consecutive days. I tasted only whites and roses the first day, and mostly reds on the second day.
-Al
Although I try to plan my route when I can, I like to leave room for stopping at tables for wineries I don’t know. In addition, since I often know other people at the tasting, we’ll stop and compare notes
in the middle to see if there are any other “must taste” wines to try. At very large events, if you have a friend with similar tastes to you, you might consider dividing up the room and meeting to compare notes.
Another challenge for tasting at large events is that wines that stand out are often wines with big fruit and/or lots of oak. So a given wine that may impress you for lots of fruit or oak may turn out to
be very over-the-top or a bad match with food if you had to sit down and drink it over the course of a meal. Look for balance, and then look for balance again!
Bruce
Took a look at this event – wow. So vast! Thousands of wines. Clearly this is a very different kind of event to attend versus anything I’ve ever been to. If I were attending my top priority (like you!) would be to research top 20 or 30 producers I wanted to visit and plan my route accordingly. Even that would be a very large number to sample; one could easily get lost in this kind of venue.
I wonder for this event – is this a consumer event or really oriented towards in-the-business folks who are ordering for their retail operations? BTW with a quick glance I see mostly producers I’ve never heard of, that never show up in the U.S. Very cool!
I would modify this to say spit most things. I think it is against the law, for example, to spit Chevalier Montrachet or Romanee St. Vivant (e.g., at Paulee Grand Tasting). But spitting and water are essential.
I tend to limit note taking. I would rather talk to the producers, etc. That is a special part to me of these types of tastings. I mostly note what I have tasted and mark the wines that I find or special or that I may want to purchase. I find experiences with producers more special than great tasting notes.
I try to go to more important producers for me first while my palate is fresher. I tend to do whites before reds, where possible as the tannins in young reds fatigue my palate more. However, the most fatiguing wines for me are sparkling wines. Love them, but can only taste so many.
FWIW these are the sort of events where I really don’t tend to talk to producers, barring a very brief exchange. Maybe trade events are better (one hopes so), but the public events tend to be so busy (after the 1st half hour) that it’s as much to leverage the table-hoggers out of the way enough to get a glass past them & merely ask to try one of the wines on the list - I’ll then back away so others can try and get to the table as well. Yes it is often that bad.
Just occasionally the producer isn’t well known, and there is a chance to chat a little, which is good. Indeed unlike the scenario above, I reckon they appreciate it as well, as no-one would enjoy just standing around. I’ve certainly picked up a couple of business cards at such events to help arrange visits to wineries.
Linked to the above, such public events often suffer from people ‘trophy hunting’. We may discuss the merits of red then white or vice-versa, but for a number of people, the order is heavily influenced by price/prestige and the plan is to attack the tables in descending order of price. The more that happens, the more other people play the same game as they know they’d miss out otherwise. By way of compromise, I’d say try to limit the ‘must try’ prestige wines to 2-3, and out of courtesy to the producer, don’t just ask to try their most expensive wine, but try one or more other wines as well. I’ve seen some get very frustrated by trophy hunters. If you get to try other prestige wines as you go, then great, but as long as you’ve got to try the ones you really wanted to taste, then you won’t feel let down if others have run out.
Xavier - I’ve been to many events like that one, on both sides of the table. When I’m pouring, I make sure to arrive early so I can scope out everyone else’s wine and give recommendations to people who stop by my table.
When I’m on the other side, as I’ll be today, I do what I mentioned. At events of that size, it depends. If I was there to look for business opportunities, I’d taste differently. It would be quick, a brief check to revisit, and then onwards. Then I’d come back, taste again, and talk with the people.
If you’re not there for business, and if it’s a multi-day affair, you have a fantastic opportunity to learn. I learned a lot by going to huge events like that as guest of someone or on my own. Years ago I went to Vinexpo and spent the first day tasting only whites, and rather slowly at that. I ended up spending a lot of time with German wines and that was when I started to develop an understanding of them - talking to all of the producers and later visiting.
Regarding my earlier comment on reds/whites, the idea of starting with whites comes from multi-course Victorian meals where you started light and got heavy towards the end. Now Americans have this idea that it’s the only way to drink wine but they’re wrong unless you’re eating. If it’s just taste, the typical white has a lot of acid, not much tannin, and usually not a lot of sugar, although that depends. When you take a sip of a big red after that, especially a young and tannic wine, the tannins are overwhelming and the fruit is hidden by the lingering acid. After a few sips you’re OK but if you’re selling wine and you pour in that order, that first red is a hard sell.
If you do it the other way, the acidity cuts through the red and doesn’t affect your judgment so much, at least in my experience. We often open a white after dinner, just because they’re usually lighter and I can sit and sip.
But don’t take my word for it. Many people disagree. I’ve just found it works for me that way, especially if I’m trying fifty or more wines. Pay attention to your own palate and figure out what works for you.
Separately, a lot of people on this board who don’t do this for a living (and I no longer do), say that they get palate fatigue and can’t taste more than a dozen wines, etc. That’s valid for most people. You will taste things differently at the end of the day.
OTOH, it’s not impossible to continue to pick up nuances and make real distinctions. If it’s difficult for you, there’s absolutely no reason to force yourself to try. It’s not a contest after all.
I learned the hard way however, that you can indeed taste through many dozens of wines in a day and you can still make some sense of what you’re tasting at the end.
I’m not recommending doing it and it’s not ideal. At some point it actually becomes work. But if you’re on a buying trip with limited time, you have little choice.
Again though, it all depends on what your purpose is. If you’re trying to write detailed tasting notes, they will likely be as repetitive and senseless as most at the end of the day. But if it’s to give yourself something to jog your memory, you can do it. And if you have several days, you can go back and re-assess.
I love tastings like the one you’re’ going to. I guess the only real advice is to pace yourself and pay attention to how YOUR body is reacting. We’re all different.
Best of luck!
It’s a hybrid (there will be an invite-only tasting the previous evening, from what I understand in previous iterations) and the weekend is likely to be packed with consumers. I was also drawn to the fact so many are producers that don’t even export to the U.S., and I’ll try to buy from those while also checking out some that do sell here so that I know what to seek out.
Thanks for underlining this point. Out of curiosity, what kinds of questions would you ask producers in this type of setting. I look back to my interactions and in general they seem intuitive - though I tend to also ask what dish would they have X wine with if they were sitting at home (to get past the general “pair with fish”, etc.).
Thanks for the additional comments on note-taking and order. Since some have asked (and I have failed to clarify), I’m not a wine writer so my notes would be really to 1. know what I want to buy and 2. for my own study. I pulled some sheets from a tasting I attended some time ago and noticed I put some stars next to some wines (pretty clear: one star = liked, two stars = loved), but looking at it months later I wish I had written why I liked those.
So, I’ll experiment with your ideas and come up with something concise. The sheets Brig Campbell shared will be helpful, thanks!