NYTimes: Asimov on Grape Variety Caste System

Good question. Sauvignon Blanc, IMO, suffers from having an ocean of mediocre versions that are cheaper to make(bigget tank ferments+no wood+early release) mostly passable quaffers(just good enough to sell reliably) that many wineries have no real incentive to shoot for the moon.

That said, there are truly, truly great Sauvignon Blancs experiences. I was offered a taste of 1985 La Mission Haut Brion Blanc back about 2001 that remains at the pinnacle of great white wines for me alongside a 1964 Lopez de Heredia(which utterly smashed an excellent 2002 Raveneau Le Clos and 1999 Jadot Chevalier-Montrachet).

I’ve had absolutely top notch SB from multiple regions in the Loire. Vatan’s Clos Neore, Dagueneau, and even an over performing 10 year old bottle of Claud Lafond’s Reuilly. Les Montes Damnes from Cotat was a formative wine for me in the 1990’s(at $15).

Add in the good wines from NZ and California, and some of the German versions, and there’s a wealth of great SB.

It’s just unfortunate that there isn’t more awareness of how truly great the dry white Bordeaux can be. I’ve drank an ocean of excellent white wines, and that bottle has stood the test of time for me extraordinarily well.

That’s a good point on the economic incentive for a winery, quite relevant and a reality. Someone’s gotta want to be an artisan starting out or have a history/legacy to protect that predates what we see in the modern market. Otherwise, you probably have to try and fuck up an SB otherwise it sits in a large ocean.

I agree also that there are some heavy hitters. I like the La Mission (though never had an '85), the Loire producers, I called out Merry who kinda minted a name for that out in Napa for some time, and a small, very small handful of others roam free. Are they great as in I’d trade some of my Burgs for it, not likely at least for me, really, really good, more my thoughts. I don’t think I’ve had a standalone or primary non-sauterne blend bottle that was more than a decade old. Just does not occur to me to cellar them.

I like how Rich put it…

Nothing in SB-land has a large cult following. Most likely for the economic reason you mentioned.

Among the best SB I’ve had is Austrian.

Some Napa Cab producers make excellent classically ripe SB that appeals to my preference for '70s era ripeness Napa Cabs and red Bdx, hitting a lot of those same notes, while their Cabs are unfocused, soft, murky indifference. Maybe it’s as a small production secondary wine the winemakers are making what they like, rather than what maximizes profit with the larger scale flag ship wines.

Martella’s SBs from Ascona Vyd. up on Skyline in the SCM were fantastic. I think there’s potential for greatness in the region, not that there’s any financial incentive to pursue it.

La Mission … can Nobility rest on blended wines? ( please no cracks about British aristocracy)

Nah. The opposite.

Red Bdx are blended wines, so why not?

That brings to mind Petite Verdot. Fantastic blending grape that really adds to some world-class wines. I’ve had very good varietal PV, but not sure it has the potential to be world-class on its own (plus it’s rather a rather finicky late ripener, so many sites where it shows its best it has many years it doesn’t ripen). (Well, maybe once or twice a decade the best lots of Monte Bello PV could make a world-class wine, as it’s stunning in barrel.)

You mean that the first growth red Bordeaux wines are not noble?

If you can grow multiple noble varieties and the blend is as good as first growth Bordeaux, red or white, then I can’t imagine not doing it.

But to be fair, I think nobility is site+variety(ies)+tradition. So blending is no issue for me.

Britting shix?

Power influence fashion, and “noble” might be more of a fashion thing I reckon. “Who cares?” is spot on Tom.

There are a lot of great grapes out there and with increased attention to quality in lesser know varieties, a great time to have an open mind and explore [cheers.gif]

Someone referenced the white. Actually the better point in this particular case is that (I think) SB is no more than half and maybe less of the elevage.

I still have my question in general; to which I do not have an answer (that’s why its a question!)
Its interesting that Riesling Pinot Noir and Merlot all have clear European unblended exemplars that support Nobility; Cabernet Sauvignon in noble wines is more often part of a blend, albeit in many cases the dominant partner.
This line of attack may not get us very far. And maybe its just that Im not wild about SB.

I agree with you on this.

One problem with the whole “Noble” thing is that it entrenches the future in the past.

Like saying that the Lakers and Celtics are the “Noble” NBA teams based upon the results of the 60-80s.

I suppose the other problem with noble is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The perceived best/most remunerative grapes are planted in the best parts of the vineyards and are given the most attention in the vineyard and winery. We saw this play out on a wider frame with California whites up until the last decade. The limited white vineyards that were planted in excellent places reached high heights, but writ large, white wines in California were treated as bagatelle in the winery.

The way I think about this (I think I’ve posted on this before) is in terms of routes to greatness. Grapes like Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay can produce good to great wines on a myriad of soils and in a myriad of styles. They tend to be reliable producers in all but the most extreme of sites. The get discussed as noble because there are more opportunities for them to be great. Further down the spectrum would be something like Mourvedre/Mataro, which can reach near as high heights but is much more finicky a cultivar. On the far end of the spectrum would be things like Mission or French Colombard, which in the best of circumstances fail to produce anything of more than passing interest. Interspersed among these are myriad varieties that show promise if only they would get proper attention (as Albarino has begun to in the last two decades, and things like Touriga Nacional, Mencia, and Graciano are beginning to in California).

From a historical perspective, I see varieties related to regions with means of export and sale succeeding. For instance, regions like Burgundy (or Napa and Sonoma in California) have succeeded partially due to proximity to urban centers, while areas like Bordeaux or the Rheingau had ready means of export in rivers. Because those wines were what was available, they became the styles by which others were judged, they had more money to reinvest in vineyards, human capital and technology, and the best grapes of those regions became ‘noble’ while more remote regions remained rustic, country wine. The sudden popularity of rusticity (and rusticators) notwithstanding.

Also, Marcus, like vegetaility in Loire Cab Franc, they’re still the Jail Blazers to me. Old reputations die hard.

That makes no sense.

Its interesting that Riesling Pinot Noir and Merlot all have clear European unblended exemplars that support Nobility; Cabernet Sauvignon in noble > wines > is more often part of a blend, albeit in many cases the dominant partner.
This line of attack may not get us very far. And maybe its just that Im not wild about SB.

I, too, am not particularly fond of SB. However, there is no denying that many producers make world-class Sauvignon Blanc in Sancerre, Pouilly-Fumé and Südsteiermark. Even though I normally don’t buy Sauvignon Blanc, I’m happy to make an exception every now and then if the wine comes from those particular regions.

Maple Leafs, Tottenham Hotspur … whole new thread here I think [popcorn.gif]

I’ll bite: I’ve had a lot more bad Chardonnays than I’ve ever had Missions. [wink.gif]

And I’m certain you can make a great wine out of Colombard, too. I failed in mine - it was an austere and unpleasant mess. So now I’d know not to pick it that early again, should I ever want to make another one. Who says it can’t be a wonderful wine picked really late, and then RO’d to remove alcohol?

I think all grapes can make good wine with the right winemaking.

I have never had the Teroldego, but Emilio Castelli’s nebbiolo is outstanding. I would also add the DV8 viognier, another Berserker wine that has a special purity and clarity, which I believe is at least in part a function of climate. Berserkerday Wine TN: 2019 DV8 Cellars Viognier Victory Camp 4 Vineyard - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

Old reputations? I’m no recent convert to rusticity. I like my vegetal notes in Loire Valley Cab Franc, just like the Blazers will ALWAYS be about the old school cool of Bill Walton, Maurice Lucas, Dave Twardzik, Lionel Hollins, and Johnny Davis.

Sheed was a bad penny, but that era was a blink of an eye.

If you have to resort to manipulation to make a good wine then the grape, the site or the winemaker (maybe all three) have serious flaws. :wink:

I don’t think people realize how common it is. Some manipulation happens in almost all winemaking.

True, but R.O. is pretty significant.