On a wine, what (other than oak) makes it taste like oak??

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

Pride Viognier does not see oak!!!

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

In my humble experience, wine in 5 year barrels can show oak aromas and flavors. Not “new” oak of course, but older, wet wood, sometimes planky notes. Lees, other things can add elements too. But I’m a bit dubious of “neutral” oak. I taste oak in “neutral” barrels, enough people have been castigated for suggested that neutral oaked wine shows oak. Maybe they’re not wrong.

[ToddFrench]

@Vincent Fritzsche

Pride Viognier does not see oak!!!

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

In my humble experience, wine in 5 year barrels can show oak aromas and flavors. Not “new” oak of course, but older, wet wood, sometimes planky notes. Lees, other things can add elements too. But I’m a bit dubious of “neutral” oak. I taste oak in “neutral” barrels, enough people have been castigated for suggested that neutral oaked wine shows oak. Maybe they’re not wrong.

[thank_you.gif]

[Otto_Dobre]

I was told that their Viognier goes into SS barrels.

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

That may be, I honestly don’t know. My comment about Pride wasn’t necessarily intended to be related to my comment about neutral oak. That’s another sordid history. My point remains – wines from “neutral” oak in my experience aren’t necessarily as free from oak flavors than I find most people saying. Maybe I’m overly sensitive to oak. Maybe I’m wrong. Just giving my experience. As someone who’s making pinot noir and looking to minimize oak flavors (not the other elements of barrel aging), I’m searching for oak that doesn’t give “oak” to the wine.

[Jeff_Brinkman]

@Todd F r e n c h

@M. Sai

Just a shot in the dark, but stem inclusion could be mistaken for oak/wood as well. A recent and popular example of this would be the Rhys/Alesia 2006 San Mateo Pinot.

It wasn’t stem inclusion, and the winemaker’s notes do state they are destemmed.

Must have been the acids or some yeast of some sort.

Hey Todd, the 2006 San Mateo was a blend of both destemmed and whole cluster. I’d have to go back and check the percentage, but I think it was something around 40% whole cluster. Don’t quote me there. As of 2007, all of our estate wines are 100% whole cluster. We were still doing trials in 2006, but all of the estate wines in 2006 had stem inclusion. Most were quite high. Stems can produce a “woody” character in wine, which I quite like.

[Shawnda_H]

good thread. This should be separate, but I do not like smokiness in my wines and I’m wondering how the recent fire’s will affect.

[ToddFrench]

@Jeff Brinkman

@Todd F r e n c h

@M. Sai

Just a shot in the dark, but stem inclusion could be mistaken for oak/wood as well. A recent and popular example of this would be the Rhys/Alesia 2006 San Mateo Pinot.

It wasn’t stem inclusion, and the winemaker’s notes do state they are destemmed.

Must have been the acids or some yeast of some sort.

Hey Todd, the 2006 San Mateo was a blend of both destemmed and whole cluster. I’d have to go back and check the percentage, but I think it was something around 40% whole cluster. Don’t quote me there. As of 2007, all of our estate wines are 100% whole cluster. We were still doing trials in 2006, but all of the estate wines in 2006 had stem inclusion. Most were quite high. Stems can produce a “woody” character in wine, which I quite like.

Now you’ve confused me, Jeff. Here are the winemaker’s notes:

Upon delivery to the winery, the Dolcetto grapes were de-stemmed, and the whole berries allowed to cold soak for a few days to extract color, spiciness and the delightful soft tannins from the grape skins. After fermentation had completed, the young wines were aged for five months in neutral oak barrels. The final blend was then made and moved to a stainless steel tank for a month to integrate and marry the different components from the two vineyards.
The 2006 Dolcetto was bottled the end of May, 2007 and released in July.

[Jeff_Brinkman]

@Todd F r e n c h

@Jeff Brinkman

@Todd F r e n c h

It wasn’t stem inclusion, and the winemaker’s notes do state they are destemmed.

Must have been the acids or some yeast of some sort.

Hey Todd, the 2006 San Mateo was a blend of both destemmed and whole cluster. I’d have to go back and check the percentage, but I think it was something around 40% whole cluster. Don’t quote me there. As of 2007, all of our estate wines are 100% whole cluster. We were still doing trials in 2006, but all of the estate wines in 2006 had stem inclusion. Most were quite high. Stems can produce a “woody” character in wine, which I quite like.

Now you’ve confused me, Jeff. Here are the winemaker’s notes:

Upon delivery to the winery, the Dolcetto grapes were de-stemmed, and the whole berries allowed to cold soak for a few days to extract color, spiciness and the delightful soft tannins from the grape skins. After fermentation had completed, the young wines were aged for five months in neutral oak barrels. The final blend was then made and moved to a stainless steel tank for a month to integrate and marry the different components from the two vineyards.
The 2006 Dolcetto was bottled the end of May, 2007 and released in July.

Hahahaha. I thought you were referring to our wine not having stem inclusion. I assumed from your response to Mike Sai’s post that you were referring to us. I misunderstood. 1000 pardons. [suicide.gif]

To correct my earlier mistake, the San Mateo is 75% whole cluster, not 40%, FWIW.