One of your regular bottles jumps in value.

WINE TALK
41

Well said. I’ll drink to that.

42

Isn’t all a matter of degree and how you personally value the potential drinking experience. On some bottles, if I don’t value the drinking experience in a manner commensurate with what I could sell it for, then why not sell it. For instance, I had a few bottles of a particular wine that I had opened and enjoyed over the years but when I saw that the value had gone up from around $200 (worth drinking but not a favorite wine/producer) to about $600 (not worth drinking for me), I sold the rest of my bottles. Similarly, I splurged and bought a few bottles of favorite wine for about $700 years ago intending to drink them notwithstanding that they exceeded my “comfort” zone but would be special enough to drink so I bought them - once I realized that I could sell them for over $2000 a bottle, I sold 2 and kept 1 because I am not comfortable opening bottles in that value range and realized that I preferred the $4000 now to saving them for 2 drinking occasions that may or may not happen at some point in the next 20yrs - but saved 1 bottle because I think that I “might” value the drinking experience at that level on a one time basis.

Sure, for most wines that move slightly here or there it doesn’t much matter - $50 to $75 or $200 to $300, perhaps a different calculus for me - with those the “to sell or not to sell” decision would be based on whether I thought I’d ever manage to drink the bottles (since I have far too much wine anyway). If I think I’ll never be driven to grab one from the cellar given the alternatives that I have and the “optionality” of having it doesn’t matter enough, then out it goes.

Why keep dead weight in the cellar? Why not recycle the proceeds into other wines or other things/experiences that might bring more pleasure. Ultimately we buy/collect/cellar wines to bring us pleasure and valued experiences with the wine and friends, but if other pleasures or experiences might be preferable, then why retain a particular wine?

43

Looks like I have something in my cellar for you. [wink.gif] It’s an '06.

44

Great; the ‘06 is a gem

45

How come previous post is timed 10:21 and looking at my watch and it’s only 10:13

46

Another important consideration above and beyond the simple value calculus. I discovered that my wine buying enthusiasm far outstripped my consumption capacity. I’m not cellaring for the next generation, so it made sense to send some bottles to auction.

47

Posting in the future again, are you? We knew you were quick Mark. Now there’s proof.

48

I enjoy all the gnashing of teeth around this issue, but it is not a real problem. I finished the open Blanc de Blanc 2013 with crab cakes last night. At my level, any increase in value, usually has come with an increase in price and I have to justify to myself paying the tariff or not. I have this problem with Rhys who are now at the outer edges of my priceline. I really love the Ultramarine sparklers and drink them pretty often. I have been buying since the first release and will continue as long as I can. I will however, be more judicious about giving bottles away.

49

  1. The price you pay is irrelevant. History.

  2. It’s irrelevant if the wine is sitting in your wine rack or in a store.

  3. You have a choice: wine or cash.

So if it’s too expensive to buy you should sell it if you have it.

50

Does everything have to refer to Star Trek?! neener

51

Disagree totally with that last point. I have lots of wine, including recent Juge and Rougeard bottlings that have gone up 5-10x in value, that I will never sell, but certainly would not buy at current prices. I will drink then, perhaps just a wee bit more selectively. Gone are the days of popping a Juge mid-week for shits and giggles. Well, I may still do that occasionally . . . .

52

Everyone who collects/cellars wine for the long-term ultimately faces this “problem.” You bought a bottle years ago for a reasonable price, you intended to drink it down the road, and now the FMV of that bottle has skyrocketed to a level that you can no longer rationalize. What to do?

Some people will always hold, some people will always sell, and some will decide on a bottle-by-bottle basis. Ultimately, make whichever decision makes you happier.

One caveat I would add, though, is that you shoudn’t make the decision SOLELY on the basis of what some other person (perhaps with more money than common sense) might pay for that bottle. In other words, just because some stranger throws a silly amount of money at a bottle at auction shouldn’t determine for you whether YOU should drink the wine in your cellar.

Bruce

53

I was able to grab some recent vintages of Juge on release, and then you see a $60 bottle immediately selling for $400-$500 as is the case with 15’ Juge. I laughed and thought of how good this wine will be down the road, but when I explained it to my wife, she was incredulous. ‘Why in the world would we ever drink that?! Store it for 5 years, sell, and buy 40, $50 bottles of wine.’

Different perspectives, but I’m sure I’ll just drink them.

54

One should expect the wine to increase in value as your cash would have increased in value had you simply invested it. For example, by a bottle of wine for $100. 24 years later it’s worth $400 a bottle. Or maybe it’s worth $600. Should you sell?

Should you have ever purchased the wine in the first place? The $400 bottle comes from a 6% annual return. $600 from an 8% annual return. If your bottle values increased like that, they’re performing about like mid-large cap index funds (or worse depending on period but I’ll defer to Victor and the like). If that rate of return is so compelling to you that you’re having massive pangs of guilt about drinking the wine, you never should have purchased the wine and should have instead invested the money. Then again, capturing your return remains possible…i.e. sell and it’s not too late.

Just a personal economics call. Or a wine preference call. Sell the bottles buy something you like.

Despite Gerhard’s preposterously ill-reasoned position, selling a bottle of wine does not mean you are not a wine lover. Perhaps there are other wines you find equally enjoyable that you’d prefer to own and can purchase with the proceeds of the sale of some of your collection. That’s typical of many collectors, who progress from California’s big guns to Burgundy and Bordeaux. Or of many collectors who simply over purchase out of enthusiasm, and then wish to pare down their cellar to a more manageable size of things they truly enjoy. The sale of wine is often in pursuit of a passion for wine, not in a simple desire to make money from long term speculative investments.

55

Gerhard’s position is no more ill-reasoned than anyone else’s. There is no definite answer in this debate, only personal values.

56

a lot of you are all talk. The answer of course depends on the change in value and your financial status. Do you think I will drink my 1990 DRC La Tâche magnum worth $13,000 bought on release for $550? I can spend a week in France for that bottle.

57

So why haven’t you sold it yet if the decision is so obvious ?

58

I should correct myself: selling bottles that you don´t like to drink anymore, or selling bottles where you have bought too many of is certainly not what I´ve meant …

But selling a wine you love … and you would love to drink … but because of increased price you sell it … (and probably buy many cheaper less good wines instead) …
that escapes my imagination …

(but of course it´s only my personal opinion)

59

where did I say sell immediately?

60

Exactly. Selling that La Tache would be an easy choice for me and probably all but the wealthiest. I can get a lot more passionate about a week in France than drinking a mag of any wine. Unless $13,000 was a rounding error on my monthly expenses. Then why not drink it?

It’s harder when the bottle’s worth is only a few times what you paid or would normally pay. I’ve got bottles of wedding year 88 Krug Le Mesnil that are worth about 8x what I paid. They’re not easy to open but they’re impossible to sell.