Orange wine

[TomHill]

Well… I make a distinction between orange wines (which describes a color) and the broader range of skin-contact whites (which may or may not have an orange color). BobbyStuckey, in his new book on Friuli (an outstanding read), uses the term “Vini Macerati”, which I particularly like. Not to be confused with Maserati, which has 4 wheels and goes fast.
It’s a fascinating genre of white wine. The skin-contact can sometimes be so prolonged that the phenolic character dominates and obliterates any varietal character. But these wines can oftentimes age into something incredible. They invariably need food with them and be served at room temperature to ameliorate the tannins, not at white wine temperatures.
In Calif, the ViniMacerati of Ryan/RymeCllrs and JimCowan are some of my favorites.
Tom

[Wes_Barton]

If the color does not come from skin maceration, then: no.

I was hoping someone familiar with the wine could give some input, This is from the Lillian site:

The challenge is to figure out a way to make a complete and totally gentle extraction of the aromas in the thick-skinned berries and often-present (and welcome) botrytis. To this end, > we macerate and ferment this fruit on the skins for three to five days, gently washing the skins with the juice twice a day> , just until the fermentation progresses far enough that the aromatics crack open and rise from the fruit.

I haven’t had the roussanne and was wondering if this was an anomaly for the vintage or if this was consistent across vintages for Lillian. The roussanne is definitely difficult to track down and I wasn’t sure if anyone could verify whether or not it might fit the profile of some of the wines being discussed here.

Well, 3-5 days is more like a borderline case whether it is orange wine or not, since 3-5 days of maceration with red grapes rarely makes a red wine and normally the only criterion for an orange wine is it being a white wine vinified like a red wine. That wine sounds more like a white variety equivalent of what rosé wine is to a red wine. With some botrytis curveball thrown in.

Borderline, huh? So, not all skin contact whites are orange wines?

[Tom_DeBiase]

Not sure if there is any type of defined difference between “skin contact white” and “orange” wine. I can say that there are many excellent skin fermented white wines coming out of Sonoma County. They are delicious, age well and are great with tough food pairings.

Tom

[Otto_Forsberg]

Borderline, huh? So, not all skin contact whites are orange wines?

Of course not. If that were the case, many classic German Rieslings and New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs along with many other white wines would be orange wines.

Just as a wine that has seen 2 days of maceration with red grape skins most likely isn’t considered a red wine.

Not sure if there is any type of defined difference between “skin contact white” and “orange” wine.

There isn’t, “skin contact white”, “orange wine” and “amber wine” are used interchangeably almost everywhere. This forum is one of the few places where I’ve seen people use “skin contact whites” exclusively for wines normally considered as orange wines, and “orange wines” for wines that are orange-colored, no matter if they actually have seen skin contact or not.

[Mark_C_Johnson]

There are some great ones (especially in Austria) … and a lot weak ones … (further South)
The great ones are fine with food …

I’ve never had an Austrian version of orange wine, but I love Austrian whites and would love to give it a try. (If you have any specific recs/favorites that might be available in the U.S., please share!) Most all of the ones I’ve had were from Carso/Friuli or Slovenia, and the rest have been either elsewhere in Italy (Sicily, Umbria, etc.), or from other countries (such as the U.S.) attempting their hand at orange wines, and most of those have seemed overdone. The best of the orange wines have a great deal of complexity along with a pronounced juicy, mouth-watering (by which I don’t mean “delicious” but literally as in “saliva inducing”), with an exotic combination of iced tea, orange and honey flavors plus an almost pinot noir-like flavor profile that, together the light tannins, I think could easily fool someone tasting with eyes closed into thinking it must be a red wine. The worst of them all taste (similarly) of wheat beer or Hefeweizen (with their characteristic addition of citrus, either added to the beer or included in the brew) plus not much else.

Never has Austrian either. However the grand poobah of orange wine is south of Austria making top notch bottles aging in amphora, wild yeast, low tech; all in northern Italy (Collio as I recall). Gravner makes the most unique expressions hands down IMO.

I opened a 1998 Gravner BREG for a bunch of wine geeks last year. The wine changed throughout the night. There was fruit and herbs but there was also a whole lotta other stuff going on. It was challenging but also very rewarding.

[kmason]

I love Robert Sinskey’s orange wine “Orgia”. Pinot Gris.