Sort of. For me at least, I like knowing I can get most of the best of Oregon for $75 whereas with Burgundy I feel like I’m just scratching the surface of what’s available at that price point.
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I think the people who complain about QPR in Burgundy are focused on this part of it - the $50 and below.
Yes Greg I don’t usually spend more than $50 for a bottle. Not everyone on Wine Berserkers is rich and has a cellar full of $400 wines. With my son and daughter in sports I would rather spend money on them then some average $80 Burgundy.
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Sort of. For me at least, I like knowing I can get most of the best of Oregon for $75 whereas with Burgundy I feel like I’m just scratching the surface of what’s available at that price point.
Correct. I am sure there are some stellar Burgs for $45.00 but MN does not get them so I would rather drink St. Innocent, Walter Scott, Bergstrom, Vincent, J. Christopher, Thomas and so many more… ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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Okanagan Pinot and Ontario Chard!
RT
Ha! Greg wins quotes of the day!
“I don’t drink wine to win some kind of QPR award”
“I don’t want to fight you, I just want to drink my Fourrier”
Hey Greg, well done, I will be stealing both!
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Totally understandable. My problem with this thread is twofold; Burgundy and Oregon Pinots are two entirely different wines sharing the same grape. One is not a substitute for the other. Secondly the value question. If the OP had put a $50 or $75 cap into his post, then we would have an interesting debate.
Personally there are plenty of Volnays and Pommards at the top end of the range, which are fine Burgundies. Period. No need to make excuses or apologies, I am always happy to drink them.
Over the past year, I have enjoyed some Oregon wines particularly Goodfellow. But I drink them differently, pair them with different foods. Great wines, that I have shared with friends over Zoom. I like having both in the cellar.
I guess the biggest unknowns for Oregon are the longevity of the wines and the tertiary development. I think David was right above that it takes a long time to properly develop a wine region. It’s sussing out great sites like Maresh and X-Novo. It’s vine age and clone variety. Too much work by expert vignerons. That said, Oregon and Burgundy seem much closer than Napa and Bordeaux, yet no one on the site has any problem discussing the Judgment of Paris. Maybe not William Kelley and Jasper Morris, as they are such Francophiles, but I would love to see blind tastings from people like Stephen Tanzer on Oregon vs Burgundy. I also wonder how much of Burgundy’s je ne sais quoi in longevity comes from picking greener and chaptalization? Obviously Wine Enthusiast thought non-blind that Patricia Green Cellars 2016 Estate Vineyard Bonshaw Block Pinot Noir was better than DRC and Rousseau. I did a flight of 2003-2006 Bonshaw last summer and they were wonderful. I’ve never had an opportunity to do a vertical of properly aged of the best of Burgundy.
There is a implication to your post that I was somehow demeaning people who don’t spend enough on Burgundy. There was not. If you don’t want to spend more than $50 on wine, no one is forcing you. But there’s plenty of very good $80 Burgundy, which is the point I was making.
You are welcome to spend your money however you like, just as I’m free to keep buying and drinking Fourrier. Vive la différence!
If the OP had put a $50 or $75 cap into his post, then we would have an interesting debate.
Agree!
But there’s plenty of very good $80 Burgundy, which is the point I was making.
Agree. I normally would buy Chablis in that price point and lower and I am satisfied. Les Clos can still be afforable!
That has to mean you know more about Oregon Pinots than Burgundy. I have the exact opposite history.
That has to mean you know more about Oregon Pinots than Burgundy. I have the exact opposite history.
Sounds good. We don’t get great Burgundy in MN so educate me on these great wines under $50.00.
It is hard to tell from place to place what is available and at what price. Here, there are a lot of Burgundies in the Côte Chalonnaise that provide excellent value. Also, wines from Santenay, Chorey-les Beaune, Savigny, etc., etc. But, I have had the opportunity to taste these here and I don’t know if they are available in your market. For example, we had a party a few years ago and served a 2015 Domaine Michel Juillot Bourgogne Rouge and a 2015 Moreau-Naudet Chablis that each cost less than $30 and which I preferred over any Oregon wine I have had. I don’t know if you have access to these wines (or others like them) or whether you would prefer the bigger fruit of Oregon wines over the relative finesse and complexity of these wines in any case.
But, in any case, it is best to state what you like and dislike and not to make overly broad assumptions about what everyone else does.
We want people to stop buying Burgundy!
There are a ton of threads on this board about value Burgundy. A couple of excellent ones are on the Hall of Fame list of threads. Also, William Kelley has made a number of wonderful posts on the subject. Either read them or don’t. It is up to you. I really don’t care. I do not feel any great need to prove anything to you. Esp. after that truly nasty comment.
John Gilman has devoted the last two (or more?) issues of his newsletter to value burgundy, both red and white. It is not an area I have explored much, but if I were inclined to I would read more carefully his assessment of the region and specific recommendations. Many of them are under the 50 price point I think.
There are a ton of threads on this board about value Burgundy. A couple of excellent ones are on the Hall of Fame list of threads. Also, William Kelley has made a number of wonderful posts on the subject. Either read them or don’t. It is up to you. I really don’t care. I do not feel any great need to prove anything to you. Esp. after that truly nasty comment.
So I ask for recommendations and you think that is a nasty comment. Wow! I already provided great producers of Oregon Pinot ealier in a post.
Nice post but there are a couple of points I would disagree with.
- The diversity of terroir is right there with Burgundy. Even if I narrow it to the diversity of terroir of the Willamette Valley.
That diversity might become a lot more apparent to a taster by avoiding cellars where irrigation, lengthy cold soaks, enzymes, powdered tannins, etc. are in use.
But while the range in Burgundy is exceptional, you can also find an extraordinary array of expressions here.
- Oregon producers have more incentive than Burgundians to reach to for techniques producing wines with dry etract, significant tannins and acids, as well as to utilize sulfur as heavily as Burgundians. Unless the region is fine with petit frere status…and I am not.
Burgundians already have their reputation established. They don’t truly need cellarworthy wines to sell out(although I hope they continue to make them). Yes they do need to keep up their reputation, but there are plenty of consumers happy to drink the new generation of Gouge wines at 10-20 years old instead of aging the previous generations for 25-50.
Oregon has the extraordinary incentive of needing to have great, fully mature but not over the hill wines at 20, 30, and more years. If we, as Oregonians and winemakers, ever want to not have to listen to the inherent bias towards Burgundy, there have to be Oregon wines that can behave as Burgundian wines, not in flavor, but in evolution.
Too many wineries here fail to see how important legacy winemaking at the highest level is, and too many wines are produced to taste good now, and then hope that the wines will age a few years too. But when one region is being judged on bottles 20-30 years in the cellar and the other is being judged on 5-10 year old wines, there is a strong advantage in tasting. Over time that advantage will become a bias.
Too many wineries don’t realize what we’re missing because old Oregon Pinot Noir can routinely age 20+ years. No other region on earth would get the pass on Pre-Mox that Burgundy does. Not bitter, but just saying that no other region in the world could have so many unpredictable fails and still maintain price point. That occurrence alone shows the strength of bias we have towards regions that deliver the “profound old bottle”.
But where you see site, winemaking with a serious influence by great old world wines, there are already wines being produced that can hold their own with high level Burgundy. Look at Mike Evans post on the 2005 PGC Notorius. And if the Willamette Valley produced that quality of bottle in 50% of our wineries in the Valley, and that became the standard for what our region produced then we would be much further along the route to achieving our true potential.
Now if we can just get an order of monks to begin codification of the vineyards…
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Here’s a superb burgundy for under $45 at one of your local stores. Would be an interesting head to head comparison with any PN from Oregon, IMO, and has a little bottle age on it although it’d easily last another 10-30 years.
https://sunfishcellars.com/collections/wine-2/products/sunfish-1991
To answer those who are looking for names of sub $75 Burgundies, I will start the ball rolling with my two favorites. Feel free to add.
Lafouge
Glantenay
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