I feel that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Is this a quote from Monica?
Cheers,
Hal
Thank you Otto for one of the most enlightening posts I’ve read in my time on this forum ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
That’s the same reason it’s sometimes done ramato style (fermented on skins). If it’s a red grape with less pigment, why not treat it like a red grape. The darkest Pinot Gris I’ve seen had plenty of pigment, but it mostly fell out in the wine.
-Al
The best Pinot Grigios from Veneto have been made in Ramato style and they can be pretty awesome. Often they are more like rosé than orange wines, but with their own singular style.
The Wenzel Grauburgunder I mentioned above was pretty dark red, coming across as more like a deep Poulsard or a lighter Pinot Noir than orange or pink. So obviously not all the wines drop their color.
I had some PG grapes that were so dark I fermented them on their skins. Did it twice, actually. The resulting wines were not bad, but
occupied a place between a red and a white wine (no surprise). Wouldn’t be inclined to do it again…
Peter Rosback
Sineann
A yes to both, especially like Radikon’s. Here is my note of the 2016. Complex and delicious.
2016 Radikon Pinot Grigio SIVI: This wine sees 14 days on the skins and it is a cornucopia of fruit, texture and aromas. Both phenolic and fruity, tropical fruit, guava, smoked pineapple, blood orange, chamomile and acacia flowers. Medium acidity and there is tannin that clamps down on the finish. Not a wine for everyone but if you like aromatic “light orange” wines you will love this. I did.
I agree the ramato style are neither white nor red, and not rose even though they can look like a rose. Also agree that not all will enjoy them. I enjoy drinking the better made variants. and am more likely to buy a domestic ramato style PG than white (although I haven’t had some of the ones recommended earlier in the thread).
-Al
We go through this like water. Great with Thai sitting outside watching the Cubs.
I find the reasoning “because most aren’t very good, none are”, a bit odd. I almost always prefer something else from the same region, but not always.
I’ve watched a couple of friends do this, and both were fiery red and seriously tannic. There are some good skin contact PG wines being made now, look for Big Table Farm, Johan, Kelley Fox, and Championship Bottle.
I typically don’t press white grapes for 2-3 days. With Pinot Gris, if we wait 2-4 days the low bar press is white wine and the .7 and up will be copper colored. Fermented in very old barrique, it really moves into the coppery-amber spectrum and is delicious. Autumn leaves meets dried flowers and orange citrus. When we can pull this off, I am definitely inclined to do it again.
I agree with this and feel that there is a weird dynamic where most varietals/varieties are judged on WB by favorite producers that are often amongst the best, in not the absolute best in a region or with a varietal.
But with Pinot Gris it’s just judged as a crap grape because the good producers can’t get free of how fun it is to punch up on PG. It’s like a very good surfer trying to ride down the face of a tidal wave of plonk, and it’s just a lot more fun for the crowd to watch the wave roll over the top of the surfer than to see the skill it takes to get on the wave at all.
Pinot Grigio, Pinot Gris or Grauburgunder can be everything. From a light and watery drink without much character (coming from very high yields and/or bad sites, mainly from Italy) to bold and very intense wines with a light or even pronounced sweetness. The best German producers put very good fruit into Barrique (light toasted, only a small fraction new) and then Pinot Gris or Grauburgunder can be like a Puligny or a Meursault and hard to differ in blind tastings.
Therefore it is very difficult to speak about Pinot Grigio or Pinot Gris or Grauburgunder in a uniform way. The making of the wine is just way to different. Marcus mentioned a wine making style I saw here and there in Germany too and the wines were interesting.
Vincent has been making a light red, Pinot Gris for at least a couple of vintages now. The one I tried was very tasty.
Cameron, Kelley Fox, and Championship Bottle as well. The 2016 Cameron Rouge de Gris was dynamite. A really lovely wine. I also like Vincent’s as well. I wouldn’t regard these as profound wines, but very tasty and definitely outside the bigger styles that seem to personify red wines these days.
Ken Zinns posted some photos of a 2017 ramato Pinot Gris Bryan Harrington made in 2017. As you can see, the grapes were pretty dark and the wine looked like a pinot when it was pressed, but more rose color when bottled. It was fermented in a concrete tank. Pretty tasty, I think I drank all the bottles I had. He made a pet nat out of the 2018 version, also tasty and refreshing on a warm day, but a bit explosive to open. I think it’s the sediment rather than the CO2 pressure that’s responsible for the explosiveness, nucleates the bubbles.
-Al
Pinot Grigio gets a bad rap because of all the grocery store labels and overpriced American efforts. Pinot Grigio from Alto Adige and Friuli can be wonderful wines in the right hands -
BUT - It’s also a great cheap wine for everyday wine drinkers. If someone asks me what to serve at a wedding or party that’s not expensive, I tell them to purchase Italian Pinot Grigio in the 1.5ml bottle. Just make sure it’s not more than a year old. Cavit and all those other Italian labels can be downright refreshing for the money ($10.00 at Total wine when on sale for the 1.5ml). Hell of a lot better than purchasing jugs of Beringer or Barefoot.
Popped and poured this wine last night. Met one of the family members a few years ago at Binny’s, and she signed the bottle.
Was heavier, thicker, and more sweet than I expected. Bordering on a dessert wine. Paired it with Thai, but was overpowering. Aside from the food pairing, the wine was delicious.
You will note that the title of the post mentions only the Italian spelling of the variety. Other countries make very good or excellent wines from this variety, IMO Italy doesn’t; Pinot Bianco is almost always more interesting, the opposite of Alsace.
For those wanting to try a very good Pinot Grigio, see if you can find the 2019 Branko from Collio. Slightly richer, but not quite Alsatian, profile compared to most of them available from Italy, and yet still a vibrant, minerally style. Really nice for around $20.
I buy Pinot Grigio for using in cooking. That’s it.