I do find that Drouhin in willamette seems to do much more fruit forward wines than I find in their comparably priced burgs. That has seemed to be true. I think they are an example of a producer where you actually get more for your money in Burgundy. why that is, and if that is something that should be extrapolated, I canāt say for sure.
I also think the inclusion of California pinot definitely changes the discussion as far as confection notes and sweetness. I absolutely find it more in cali pinot than willamette (in general).
The good news is, there is no wine-preference police. if thats the note you get, and its not your favorite, thats more for me to buy! I think its an interesting one, mostly because its not a note Iāve noticed except in some of the more mass-market WV pinots that actually do have RS, but like I said before, I really donāt think those are representative. then again, going back to my OP, maybe thats exactly the problem. Wines made by berserkers and wines enjoyed by berserkers are probably not the $20-30 bottles that MOST people are tasting labelled WV. they are buying Eluon, or Willametter (and thinking its a WV wine) or theyāre blowing it out for a bottle of Belle Glos on a big occasion. maybe thats where the podcast host was having issues too.
Well, youād be hard pressed to pick 2 US Pinots more diametrically different in style than your preferred $30-ish Burgundy from Charles Audoin, Hudelot-Nƶellat, and Nicolas Potel. But I do understand that itās not the style differences but the aspartame that bothers you.
Cyril Audoin is a regular at IPNC. Iāve tasted his wines compared to OR Pinots quite a few times. Theyāve never struck me as being clearly better than a dozen or more OR producers, sometimes underperforming (as one should expect)ā¦but āa chacun son goutā as the saying goes. Burgundians have an unusual interest in Oregon including: Ms. Drouhin, Jacques Lardiere (Jadot/Resonance); Dominique Lafon (Comtes Lafon/Evening land and Lingua Franca); Jean Nicolas Meo (Meo-Camuzet/Nicolas Jay); Louis-Michel Liger-Belair (Liger-Belair/Chapter 24). There are quite a number of additional Burgundians showing interest and making wines in OR. Thomas Savre of Lingua Franca (winemaker) is an example with experience working at both DRC and Nicky Potel. I believe theyāre focusing on OR based on perceived potentialā¦but I suppose there could be other reasons.
Even considering the French invasion, I still recommend that you try more of the wines from the OR producers Iāve mentioned. Better yet, visit them, taste and tap in to the knowledge and experiences. Itās time very well spent IMHO.
No comparison if we are talking whites (in my book) - The Maconnais and the Cotes de Chalonnaise are two of my favorite white appellations in the world - with SO MANY great wines under $30 -
A good search does turn up some wonderful Pinot Noirs under $30 in Oregon - but we are talking about much different styles of wine. If you like a jammier style of Pinot; than Oregon - I tend to like the racier lesser appellations of Burgundy; Haute Cotes de Nuits, Mercurey, Givry etc -
I agree about the whites, especially when you include Chablis in the mix, Burgundy has some of the best bang for your buck whites I can think of. Also true when including Aligote.
Why would any of us consumers care about wines (from Burgundy or Oregon) from less than stellar producers. We come here to learn who the stellar producers are.
While you can buy jammy wines in Oregon, you donāt have to. I am more than willing to put my wines where my mouth is on this one. Every year I do a Burgundy tasting using my wines from Whistling Ridge to demonstrate Oregonās ability to produce savory, structured wines with old world balance. And to work to dispel the notion that we only do fruit.
But you can buy entry level wines from Eyrie, Cameron, Evesham Wood, J. Christopher, Martin Wood, and Patricia Green as well.
I hear what youāre saying, butā¦In a regional conversation, we need to include the non-elite. because often, but not always in wine, as in politics, as soon as someone starts to be wrong in regional commentary they usually reach for the low performers to shore up their arguments.
I think Wine for Normal People sort of has this weird Anti-New World agenda. The few episodes I listened to that praise New World wines are usually from winemakers who stick to the old world style.
I also voted Oregon. Yea the big idea is the whole you get the more jammy stuff in Oregon but some of the āelegantā $20-30 Burgundys can be pretty lifeless and gross, so Iād rather just take a good Oregon Pinot.
I just donāt buy it. I guess most of us cannot participate in these regional discussions be cause we donāt seek out the mediocre and poor producers of any region. I have no idea what the worst producers are doing in Oregon or Burgundy. Nor do I care.
Why donāt you then suggest some truly horrible wines from Burgundy and Oregon for the OP to waste his money on in doing a comparison. Not sure what he will learn from this but sure, knock yourself out.
Friday would work. Be great to have you come in and taste and set up a quid pro quo. I have a new employee and she could definitely use as much exposure to all things wine as is possible. Are you grafting over stuff at WR to Chardonnay? Iām grafting over 2 acres of PN from a block that is clearly better for Chard. Got cuttings from Brick House. Maybe we can take this off the board after this so people donāt have to be pained by our scheduling plans.
its weird because she hosts Sonoma wine events. mostly, I think her opinions are inconsistent. she is typically anti-big winery but in this podcasts states the big wineries are good for Oregon. she likes value but posts on facebook more often about wines she doesnāt like than ones she does. its strange.
I think the conversation is important to have because most people drinking wine from a region are not drinking the best of the best. theyre drinking the most available. if a wine region has a perceived issue with most of the public, then it becomes less available to us. On the flip side, if those styles are selling well, there is temptation for others to move that direction. Lets face it, as much as we berserkers love them, most people are not drinking Marcus and Jimās wines from Oregon. Theyre drinking Wagners (shudder). if thatās how people are picturing Oregon, then that would explain where the entire impetus of this thread comes from.
please feel free to continue this conversation! I think its super interesting. plus its fun because Iām hoping to taste at both of your wineries soon! haha
I can tell you that one of the reasons people are interested in Oregon PN is they are a value. True or not. Certainly not the only reason but one of them. And if you are looking for the Oregon VS Burgundy thing then you are much more into wine than most. Average consumer thinks Burgundy is preceded by the word āheartyā.
Canāt argue this one for now. Give is another 5-10 years and it will be MUCH closer. The gap is narrowing already, qulity in Oregon is elevating rapidly. But Oregon pricing for Chardonnay is still oriented to the fact that there just isnāt that much Chardonnay planted in the Valley yet(which is changing).
Iām sorry to hear that you didnāt see many inexpensive Pinot Noirs during your visit to the Willamette Valley.
Thereās been a good number of producers making a good-great entry level Pinot Noir on the thread, so I wonāt restate them.
But I rarely pour the Willamette Valley bottling($23) for visitors. I make about 18 wines and thatās just too many for an appointment. I generally focus on the vineyard designates, because in my opinion, thatās the most important thing for me to impart. But if you have a specific need, you might ask the host for options.
Marcus, that is good to hear. I have been very impressed with Oregon Chardonnay. Even at $40-$50 I think they are good values and competitive with France. At $20, my first instinct would be to look at Chablis or Beaune. Iād love to see that change.
I would second what Marcus is stating here. We specifically had to stop pouring the WV Reserve PN ($27) at the winery. People simply do not buy it from us. We make (at least recently) over 6,000 cases of it so odds are decent people can find it in their home markets and, while (IMO) very good our single vineyard wines are clearly better, more interesting and harder to come by. Even the Estate, Liaās, Freedom Hill and Balcombe all at $37 have a low purchase rate at the winery while being staples with our distributors. I canāt speak for what other wineries have going on (you would be shocked at my level of out-of-touchness) but we simply have responded to what people are clearly telling us they want to hear about, learn about, taste and buy.
ā¦ no idea.