Very interesting thoughts. I read this article about scientists doing some more rigorous experiments on the effects of wild versus cultivated bacteria for sausages. The upshot seemed to be that the cultivated bacteria had more of a monoculture effect with less diversity of fermentation products and more pronounced acidity. Different of course from wine and yeast. I did remember reading that yeast used for sourdough “mothers” for example vary over time, I think similar to what you’re describing above over the course of wine fermentation; that even if people start their sourdough starters with particular yeast strains, over time the predominant yeast strains in the starter will still end up being the ambient yeast of that particular locale (I think one of the reasons why people say sourdough starter from San Francisco doesn’t taste the same when taken elsewhere). May have something to do with ambient barometric pressures/humidity as well as other factors.
Did it get a rise out of you? ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Let’s not forget all the cultivated yeasts selected for the taste profiles they add to the wine (ie Duboeuf’s proprietary Beaujolais yeast that adds their distinct banana note to their wines - bleh).
Honestly, there are so many variables when crafting wine that it’s hard to say how much any one thing adds to the sensation (aside from what I just wrote above, obviously). I am referring to quality wines, whether using native or cultivated yeasts, and not mass-produced crap like above.
the de moors in chablis make a viognier from purchased grapes. they are a ‘natural’ producer using native yeast. it is very interesting to taste this wine as aromatically i think there is a great similarity to their chablis. perhaps it is the yeast, the elevage, or a combination of both.
One thing I’ve observed as I transitioned from inoculated to native fermentations was having many more ‘stressed’ ferments with inoculated yeast, which required adding yeast nutrients to solve and/or avoid. I’m anxious to avoid stressed ferments, which affects the character of the wine & masks the terroir, but I hate the idea of adding nutrients…so I’m thrilled that native ferments eliminated both for me (keeping the ferment in a happy temp range is a part of this as well). I’ve been doing only native ferments with no SO2 at the crusher (or small amts in challenging years) for many years now. Anyways, native ferments probably has other advantages over inoculated (i.e. using non ‘supermarket wine’ yeast), but eliminating stressed & nutrient added ferments is significant.
One thing about sourdough starters and their changing nature to the local environment: sourdough is combination of yeast (Sacc C) and Lactobacilli (bacteria). It’s the Lactobacilli that’s changing/being replaced when you move it from place to place (from San Francisco to Ohio, for example). Bacteria (Lactobacilli et al) are airborne, so the starter gets lots of competition from local bacteria, until the starter has lost all the ‘original’ bacteria, in favor of the local. Yeast isn’t airborne, so that part will remain constant over time, even having been moved across country. Unfortunately, losing the bacteria means losing most/all of the sourdough character.
I agree with Eric. There are times when starting or intervening with a commercial yeast makes sense, but for the most part things seem to go better not using one. It’s good to have options in your playbook, but no point in using ones when they aren’t called for. (And no point in condemning someone for using one when it is called for.)