What 21s are you drinking? I’ve tried the following since they arrived and all have been really enjoyable:
Carmes Haut Brion
La Conseillante
Pichon Lalande
Figeac
Laroque
Cantemerle
Au Grand Village
Maybe there are problems with other wines. It was a difficult vintage, but even the harsh critics acknowledged that there were some pretty good wines made, and it’s not hard to figure out which ones. As far as I’m concerned main problem with 21s is pricing: If they are close to the prices of 19 or 23 then it will make more sense to buy those others. But if they find their price I don’t see any reason to avoid them, at least a careful selection of them.
I have pretty much ignored the 2021 vintage, but have tasted a couple of wines, the Montrose and Les Carmes Haut Brion. Both good, neither worth buying at current prices, while there are older and better vintages available for less money.
Had the wines been priced correctly to start with (maximum 2019 levels; maybe 10% less) they would make sense. The two I tasted were what the Brits call “luncheon claret” a wonderful phrase to damn with faint praise. 2008, 2014 and arguably 2017 are better vintages in the same mould.
I think I mentioned this to you last time we chatted, but I also really loved '21 Leoville Barton when I had it at UGC. '21 Canon was also pretty good.
[fwiw, I also agree that Cantemerle and Carmes were very enjoyable as well]
I love Robert’s list although I’m not buying as many labels. I am buying a little bit of 22 at that’s it. At this point I’ll look to buy older vintages in the future.
I will buy a very limited amount 2020 right banks. They are kicking good.
What an awesome post. Thank you. I’ll dig in. You’ve hit some of my faves–Lalande, VCC, Montrose, and Barton in particular. I have very very little experience with Trotanoy, and really very little experience with the other big guns on the right-bank, except for VCC and a smattering of Cheval Blanc.
I’m a little surprised to see Rauzan Gassies mentioned upthread. I think it’s a property that one has to be a little bit more vintage sensitive to. Personally, I like it and buy it in the bigger years like 2000 and 2005.
At least for me, it has typically been an AFWE and definitely vintage dependent. I like 2016 very much and I have read a lot of positive comments about 2019.
Ryan is too much of a baller for that country plonk!
Kidding aside, Jean Gautreau passed away, the torch handed to someone else. I simply need to re-introduce myself to this Chateau. I have some 2016 but have not tried it yet.
we had a pretty amazing evening with @J.Durham the other night. He may opine further but if I were reading into vintages I would glean:
66: Rustic (in a wonderful way) resolved, and more light cigar wrapper than I’ve ever smelled on a wine
70: Hard and angular, and not especially charming in my experience. Latour was good not great
82: Remain powerful and a long way from resolution in most cases. Most chateaux overperform (Brane Cantenac, for example) I’ve had maybe 20 bottles (mostly on the left) and no duds.
88: Turned out better than expected and often fall in the shadow of 89/90, but they are largely resolved, open aromatically, somewhat classic. My favorites are Palmer and PLL, but this Lafleur did NOT SUCK.
A few other thoughts.
1985 has been uniformly lovely. Largely resolved, but still with charming fruit.
I personally favor 89>90 for freshness vs a more roasted profile.
I’m also a big sucker for 98s, particularly on the right bank but also to an extent on the left.
While none of those are particularly bold calls, it often surprises me how much “off” vintages, like 1991-1993, and 1997 seem to go for at French auctions. My impression is that they seem to value chateau over vintage?
Somewhat interested in this topic. If one wanted to build a collection of reasonably high-end aged Bordeaux that are drinking well now, what vintages should be focused on? Guessing the sweet spot would be the better years from the 80s and 90s for classified growths? Maybe 2000 starting to come into play? It seems 82, 85, 89, 90, 95, 96 are consensus choices? (My tastes run a bit towards the riper/opulent side.)
Riper and opulent? 2003, 2009, 2010, 2018. 2009 Cos perhaps is the poster child for a wine that is drinking at its peak right now and is universally hated by the classicists. I love it, its my 100-pointer.
Where do they get the underripe stemmy notes? Although I’ve heard of some few producers who have been dabbling for a couple of years with whole bunch inclusion - and I guess there might be a few more every year - Bordeaux still remains a region that destems virtually everything. That approach used to be employed by around 100% of producers, but I guess it might be down to 99 or 98% now. @William_Kelley might have some more up-to-date information whether this has changed considerably in 2021 or if full destemming is still the way to go there?
I didnt mean stemmy as in stems included, hard to describe but many 2021s Ive tried (LCHB probably being the only exception) show this weird character that you’d get by chewing on the stem. Woody astringency might be closer to what i mean. The ones Ive tried (maybe 20 or so, so not that many) have all sucked (sans LCHB) in various ways, but the common thing has been the obvious pyrazines and that odd note I call stemmy but it might not be a great descriptor.
Hi Nick, for somebody that prefers riper and more opulent wines, I’m not really sure I would recommend any of those vintages, except for perhaps 1990. Some of those vintages are just wonderful, but I would not generally call them riper or opulent compared to what we see in the more modern era. Maybe you should be looking at 2018, 2015, 2009, 2003. And 2000 and 2010 may work as well. If you are really looking to backfill on fully mature wines, 1998 Pomerol would impress you. It’s an outstanding vintage for that little section of Bordeaux, and I think the wines can appeal to any palate.
To me - and based on how the term is used here and in other places, to many other people - stemmy usually means that distinctive character that comes from stem inclusion.
Woody astringency sounds more like the combination of unintegrated oak and young, unresolved tannins. If the wines also show some herbaceous Cab qualities, there you have it. Doesn’t sound like a thing that can be summed up under one singular term, but a combination of several different qualities resulting in a distinct characteristic.
Haven’t had that many 2021 Bdx myself, so hard to say how they are. And based how I really don’t like a) young Bordeaux; b) contemporary Bordeaux, I doubt I’m going to taste much anytime soon!
