Representative burgundy question

[Keith_Levenberg]

@Gerard Stranch

My experience has been that, for the most part- when consumed at maturity, from any given producer, and from the same village- the 1er is slightly to significantly better and the GC is slight to significantly better than the 1er. Not always- but the vast majority of the time.

I don’t have much of an issue with the idea that the race isn’t always to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that’s the way to bet.
But note the bolded portion of your post above - “when consumed at maturity.” The critics are not evaluating wines consumed at maturity. They are reviewing young wines and barrel samples. The impression they’d like to give that they have a clairvoyant ability to determine how these will all perform at maturity is hubristic and unrealistic. It’s OK to buy higher up the hierarchy on the assumption that the cream always rises to the top, but let’s be honest that we can make that judgment based on what we know about the classification and terroir, not based on how the 6-month-old barrel samples taste.

[Tom_Blach]

Quite so, Keith.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Peter Chiu

@Gerard Stranch

There have been a few threads that have recently referred to hierarchy not following quality in burgundy. Can folks list examples of where the village wine is clearly better than the 1er and the 1er is clearly better than the GC? They must be same producer, and same village/commune (I.e. don’t list a vosne village and compare it to a beaune 1er)…

Thanks!

Rousseau CSJaques is better in qaultity than his Charmes-Chembertin ; it was priced higher.

While I generally agree with Gerard’s point, I think CSJ can be an exception for a number of producers, including Jadot. CSJ better than many of their hyphen Chambertins, although I am not sure it is better than their Chapelle, which is quite good.

[Tom_Blach]

In London we recently had a dinner at which we compared Clos St Jacques and Cazetiers in the 99 vintage. Tasting them blind the superiority of the former was not at all evident(Cazetiers is also an outstanding vineyard), except that the whacking great elevage of the Rousseau stood out like a sore thumb. I certainly realise that this proves nothing with such immature wines, though; only the Fourrier CSJ and the Rousseau Cazetiers could have been described as ready to drink.

[Frank_H_Herfjord]

I believe Mugnier’s Amoureuses is generally considered to be better than his Bonnes Mares. Of course the style of the two wines are also radically different, and I think most agree that Amoureuses really should be a grand cru.

I think most of the variations for a producer is generally that a 1er cru that may show less well for other producers could be the star of another producers portfolio, depending on the conditions of their particular parcels.

I can’t think of any examples where a village is better than a 1er within the same portfolio. Maybe Voguë’s bourgogne blanc is better than their Chambolle village but that’s a silly comparison.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Frank H Herfjord

I believe Mugnier’s Amoureuses is generally considered to be better than his Bonnes Mares. Of course the style of the two wines are also radically different, and I think most agree that Amoureuses really should be a grand cru.

I think most of the variations for a producer is generally that a 1er cru that may show less well for other producers could be the star of another producers portfolio, depending on the conditions of their particular parcels.

I can’t think of any examples where a village is better than a 1er within the same portfolio. Maybe Voguë’s bourgogne blanc is better than their Chambolle village but that’s a silly comparison.

Hmmm…now we are comparing red wine with white wine

AC Chambolle does not allow white grapes ( which is written in their laws.).