Thank you everyone for the more recent comments. I’ll certainly report in detail. Thanks, Oliver, for the suggestion, I have used my that resource as well. Quick notes for now: Castello di Sinio indeed was fantastic. Portovenere was a great base for the area. And, having drivers do the driving is quite nice and allows for less concern with drinking and/or getting lost (sometimes fun, but not always). Any specific questions, please pm. Grazie! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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I find myself unable to get to Florence from Tel Aviv in a day, so am pivoting to a couple nights in Milan and onward east. (I like Milan) I haven’t been to Verona in 40 years. Any comments? I want to be without a car this trip, so on the main line to Venice is my sweet spot. Any thoughts that don’t involve a car is welcome (I suppose that includes Varenna in the lake district, but I’m booking a bit late for last week in May I’m guessing).
Enjoyed Bergamo once, but it didn’t strike me as a place to spend more than a day.
Roman ruins are a plus (why I mention Verona first).
Hi Barry
I saw the pm before this, so replied via pm. I hope it’s useful.
Following as we are planning a trip hitting similar spots in September. Several nights in Florence, a quick visit to Cinque Terre, several nights in Riva del Garda, then out of MXP. We need somewhere to stay the night before our 11:30am departure from MXP (Riva del Garda is too far to get there in time) and currently leaning to a night in Bergamo alta at Relais San Vigilio, but would love other suggestions of places that are within an hour or so of MXP. Thought about going into Milan, but prefer not to deal with that level of hassle (AND it is fall fashion week there, which means crowds and higher prices on hotels). And while Agriturismo Il Cavenago sounds great, it’s on the opposite side of Milan from where we’ll be coming from, so a bit out of the way.
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Super helpful - I’m pivoting to Ferrara as a result of the great advice!
p.s. re: the Bologna change. I’m expect it would be a platform change, and I recall reasonably steep steps (about 25 of them) onto the underground concourse, and then back up again. There may be lifts but I’m usually too pig-headed to use them ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
The wonderful thing about Trenitalia timetables is they publish the platforms in the schedule.
Rather amusingly I’ve heard a platform change / cancellation before and let Italians on the platform know. The difference is I’m listening intently to the announcements, so can make them out!
Ian, you keep triggering memories of my youth. I think it was in Bologna where I had 3 large suitcases and 3 cases of wine and a couple of smaller bags. Even with the lift, it was daunting!
We are not so ambitious this time, one large bag and one cabin bag, and I find the lift!
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Andrew — was a pleasure meeting you and your wife at Castello di Sinio. Hope the rest of your trip went smoothly.
Jim
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Hi Ian- any additional tips/suggestions on Turin ? It looks like I’ll have 2 days there for work before kicking off some vacation days.
Hi Fred
I’m not sure if this will work, but I’ll PM you a google map I created called ‘Torino Food Explorer’, which has lots of food/drink etc. things marked on the map. Covid may have claimed a few, but others seem to pop up in their place, whilst the very long established ones often seem to have good resilience. As you’ve not got a huge amount of time, you may choose to simply go to the big Eataly near the Lingotto (probably taking the Metropolitana line 1). I don’t consider it a food temple as some might, but I do see it as one of the very best supermarkets in the world.
Ideally it would be good to suggest places near your work, but the GTT transport system is good, extensive and a wonder to view (it should be online, typically it’s inside most bus/tram shelters and if you want one yourself, ask in the tabaccherie when buying tickets. For tickets, there are lots of options, and it may have changed to an urban ‘pay as you go’ card system, but FWIW as a tourist, I always liked the ‘giornaliero’ 1 day ticket for convenience. As ever in Italy, whatever the solution, you typically have to validate your ticket when you get onto the 1st bus/tram or on entry to the metro (or in the passageway from ticket office to trains).
For a place with some aged wines on the list, at very fair prices, try the quite relaxed Tre Galli up near the main market or the fancier Tre Galline. Lots of wine shops including a new fancy one on via Lagrange which is a popular pedestrianised street. I prefer other wine shops, but it’s a good central location for a stroll and there’s a great fresh pasta place nearby (de Filippis).
Other good strolling street include the fancy central via Roma all the way from Stazione Porta Nova up to Piazza Castello. Then coming off either side is via Garibaldi (with a good understated wine shop halfway along) and Via Po down to the river and the Gran Madre church (wedding scene in the Italian Job). Just off via Po is a cozy place to eat, typically with a decent selection of wines (but not what it was when they had the cellar shop) called vitel Etonné. It’s been a little variable over the years, but more often very good, and I got a positive report back from someone about a week ago.
Sites to see:
Mainstream would be everything around Piazza Castello, the art Gallery and Egyptian museum next to each other, Turin shroud in the little church/chapel between Piazza Castello and the main market (Piazza della Repubblica). Also the icon of the city the ‘Mole Antonelliana’ which also has an elevated viewign position, as well as housing a good cinema museum. The faux historic ‘borgo mediovale’ is surprisingly good for something that sounds a bit lame. Also popular, but a trek out of the city, is the Basilica di Superga, also with a sad memorial to the great Torino football team whose plane crashed into the hill, killing them all IIRC. They’ve never recovered from that as a club, but remain more popular in the city than Juve.
More quirky include Museo Pietro Micca, which is a basic/dull one room museum, but included with a guided tour of the counter-mining tunnels created to fight off Napoleon. Museum of the mountains also good, and very much recommended if it’s a very clear sky / not misty/hazy, as the viewing area does give excellent views. The local tourist office are very good/active, so check for events/markets/festivals etc. and that includes things like river cruises and tramcar restaurant touring the city as you dine. Chocolate is also a speciality, though my favourite (Odilla) is slightly inconvenient in Crocetta district (via Fratelli Carle). Others like Gobino, Castagno and Candifrutta are more centrally located. Also worth trying at least one of the historic cafes, from the fancy Baratti e Milano to the pleasingly cosy and well-to-do yet unpretentious Al Bicerin in Piazza della Consolata.
Finally, aperitivo hour, nominally from ~ 7-8pm but often extending a little later is a Torinese speciality, with the best having a wonderful buffet of tasty morsels to fill your plate with, all for the price of the drink you buy. The idea is that they tide you over until your later meal, but competition means that some can be a meal in their own right, especially if you had a big lunch.
Plenty more besides that and some of the outer districts can be interesting in their own right, but for 2 days I’d suggest staying solely within the big rectangular ZTL district bounded by Corso Margherita to the north, Corso Vittorio Emanuelle to the south, the river Po to the East and the railways tracks / Stazione Porta Susa to the West.
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Wow Ian, once again your feedback is awesome. Thanks for the pm and taking the time to send suggestions. Our trip is coming together quickly.
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Hi Jim! Yes, that was a very nice dinner, glad we were able to chat. I hope your trip went well as well. We had a great time!
Brad, while it’s boring, we stayed (again) at the Sheraton right in the airport. It could not be more convenient and less stressful, the food is not bad, and if you’re flying to the US you likely still will need a negative COVID test within 24 hours of your flight to board the plane, and there is testing available right outside the hotel lobby.
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I am working diligently on our dining, etc. notes, and hope to post all of them in the near future.
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The notes are up!
Salute!
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Thanks for the great post!
We are heading to Torino for 2+ weeks in October/November as a base to explore Piemonte and I would be honored if you could PM your map to me!
Thanks!
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Hi John
Sorry for the delay
Easiest way to access it will be from a post I put on the excellent SlowEurope travel forum 2022 Liguria, Piemonte, Lake Como | Page 3 | Slow Europe Travel Forums
With 2 weeks you’ll have lots of opportunity to explore and plenty that doesn’t need a car. Some ideas:
- Alba for the truffle festival and related events. I’d recommend one of the (busy) days when there’s also an outdoor street market, as it’s got some superb stalls
- Asti’s palio might be an option, busy for sure. For something a bit more comedic, Alba do a donkey palio as a pisstake of Asti. Asti’s regular weekly market is a good one.
- Ivrea makes for a nice day trip, with trains from Torino. We found a super little restaurant there on our last trip, plus their bakeries have some wonderful grissini
- Novara is very much an under the radar city, lovely to walk around.
- Barbaresco/Barolo are more awkward without a car, but Barbaresco absolutely doable by taking a taxi from Alba, and planning visits that allow you to walk between the wineries. Get the number off the driver to phone for a return taxi (or book that in advance if certain of timings)
- Superga is a major landmark on the outskirts of Torino, as much for the tragic plane crash that took out all of the Torino football team, and that they’ve never fully recovered from. There are also some good walks up there, plus the rather steep rack railway to get you up there.
- Lingotto interesting as a site, plus it houses the big original ‘Eataly’, the latter not being the great food temple it’s sometimes painted out to be, but rather IMO one of the very best supermarkets in the world. For convenience it’s superb, but for someone who loves grazing food shops as I do, there is ‘as good or better, for cheaper’ in the various specialists across the city (plenty of those on that map)
- There’s a mushroom festival out west, up in the hills at Giaveno, but that might be before you arrive
- Very much worth checking for other feste/mostre/sagre in and around Torino, as these are a wonderful window into the culture and people.
- In the city, the trams are a superb way to get around and the excellent tourist office now runs tramcar restaurant / more casual chartered tours of the city. The boats on the Po I think stop in September.
- The big daily market at Piazza della Repubblica is good, albeit use your eye to see what looks good. There are 2-3 mushroom stalls, one selling excellent local nuts, plus some superb cheese shops in the covered market building. It’s also very well served by buses and trams.
- Also worth checking out other speciality markets on the turismotorino site
- Coffee and chocolate both highlights, with our favourite historic coffee shop being the understated Al Bicerin (with their eponymous coffee & chocolate drink), whilst Odilla is definitely a favourite chocolate shop (in La Crocetta district, south of Corso Vittorio Emanuele II)
- Aperitivo hour is a great Torinese tradition, of supposedly light appetisers at c. 6:30-8pm, prior to heading elsewhere for a meal, but sometimes are so generous, that appetites can be ruined… all for the cost of a drink.
- Evening passaggiata: Somewhat dispersed due to the excellent porticoed streets, but via Garibaldi is a good place for a stroll, gelato, shop browsing and people watching
@Ian_Sutton - Holy moly, thanks so much for all the content - what a great wealth of information!
I will definately check out the SlowEurope Travel Forum to read your post in detail and update my travel plans!
Cannot say thank you enough! Also as to trips to the small towns, I have already found a local wine maker and booked three days with him during the two weeek stay and may book a few more.
I know I cold book direct with the producers, but I think Alessio will be able to take me to some producers that I do not even know existed, which is what happened on my first tour in the Northern Rhone.
So, if there are any producers you would recomend - I am all ears! the beginnings of my list include:
Francesco Rinaldi
Trediberri
Ferrando Vini
Oddero
Thanks again!!
@Ian_Sutton - apologies, one last question - any leads on a market cooking class, where we go to the market and then cook a meal based on what is at the market? We did this in Lyon and it was awesome!
Loads of great producers and my recommendation would indeed be to be bold and choose a few lesser known to mix in with already known e.g. we visited La Ca Nova in Barbaresco in 2012, when no-one was talking about them, but now they’ve become a (surprising) board darling. I like your selection so far.
For producer visits, the format may feel a little repetitive after a while: see the fermentation barrels, onto the ageing barrels, then maybe a bottling / labelling line and then to the tasting. After a while one room of barrels can feel like any other. We generally factor in about 90 minutes per visit, with time inbetween to travel to the next one, plus some contingency, so often 2hr apart. e.g. 9am & 11am for a morning tasting.
I’m a huge fan of winery visits that are close to each other to even make walking between them an option, and it’s nice that Trediberri and F Rinaldi are fairly close. Ratti have an impressive modern winery, though their wines tend not to excite me - an interesting visit for a rare ‘space age’ setup, yet solid history. Cascina Ballarin would be a strong recommendation, but the families were splitting up the winery/business, so no idea what that means for visits. Mauro Molino lean modern, but aren’t extremists and we really like the professional nature of the younger generation that took over. Two very good visits and we do like the wines, but as with many in La Morra, they have the forward nature / some oak of modernist wines. If looking for soemone near Oddero, perhaps Ciabot Berton for good value.
As you’re going to Ferrando nr. Ivrea, this is the restaurant we liked http://mugnaia.com/ and we found it very classy, for what was a rather modest price.
The slow travel post has the google map embedded, which seemed easier than posting it afresh. A few places will have closed (including my favourite fruit and veg shop), but others will have opened, whilst most will remain good as ever. The list evolved slowly over time. When in Torino, a couple of wine shops that might interest: Grandi Bottiglie are now out in the western suburbs and not quite the source it once was, but it is a place to find lots of older vintages, albeit not quite at the bargain prices of old. The other is on via Cibrario 38 (Il Vinaio), whose selection on ground floor is good and spaciously laid out, but if you like a ferret around and the odd gamble, they have a cellar downstairs of old wines. You’ll need to ask to have a look, but it’s interesting and can be fruitful, even if they themselves are keen to caveat that they’re stocked mostly for birth year curios and not all will be in good condition.
I’m not aware of cooking classes, but they must exist. I like cooking, but tend to keep it simple when in Italy, and have never attended a cooking class (I’m too much of a maverick in the kitchen!)