Smoke Taint 2020 Northern California.

[Greg_K]

I’ve had 4 northern CA winemakers come by my store and said smoke taint wasn’t an issue for them. We shall see ofc but none of the 2020 wines we’ve tried so far showed any signs of smoke taint.

Many people like that cigar box undertone in French wine. I’m thinking if a wine is just very very mildly effected it might be an interesting flavor.

I’d imagine if the smoke taint was really awful producers would just sell it off as bulk juice and all the cheap wine blends from there will have smoke taint.

1. “Cigar box” notes in Bordeaux are not the same thing as smoke taint, they are entirely unrelated notes. Also, it’s not “French wine” generally; I’ve yet to meet anyone that enjoys ”cigar” notes in their Burgundy. If they did, Bachelet’s 2009/10s wouldn’t be so problematic.
2. Winemakers who made smoke-tainted wines are not likely to say so - they need to sell the wines. Jeb Dunnuck’s notes suggest most are affected. So either Jeb is tasting a lot of bulk wine or you’re not picking up smoke taint.

[B_Davies]

I don’t want cigar box in wines where it doesn’t belong.

That’s fine.

Your palate, your money, your choice.

Some people don’t like eucalyptus notes that are clearly not from under ripe grapes but from the biome the grapes are grown while some do.

Wouldn’t that be part of the terroir?

I think that’s a difficult discussion because I would consider that terroir while others would consider it a wine flaw.

I think some oxidation can be intentional in wine making while sometimes it’s accidental flaw. It depends on how you look at it.

[Greg_K]

I don’t want cigar box in wines where it doesn’t belong.

That’s fine.

Your palate, your money, your choice.

Some people don’t like eucalyptus notes that are clearly not from under ripe grapes but from the biome the grapes are grown while some do.

Wouldn’t that be part of the terroir?

Sure Robert, like that cigar box undertone you love on your Cote Roties and your Baudry.

[Greg_K]

That’s fine.

Your palate, your money, your choice.

Some people don’t like eucalyptus notes that are clearly not from under ripe grapes but from the biome the grapes are grown while some do.

Wouldn’t that be part of the terroir?

I think that’s a difficult discussion because I would consider that terroir while others would consider it a wine flaw.

I think some oxidation can be intentional in wine making while sometimes it’s accidental flaw. It depends on how you look at it.

No. This is completely wrong. Nor is it a difficult discussion. Grange has eucalyptus notes. That’s terroir. That’s not a flaw. You may not like it, but that is not a flaw in the wine.
Same with oxidation. Selosse makes oxidative wines intentionally. That is NOT a flaw, it’s a specific choice. You may not like the choice stylistically, but it’s not a flaw. It is not the same thing as oxidated white Burgundy. That is a flaw.

In the cases above, it does not depend on how you look at it. One is a flaw, one is a winemaking choice.

Same thing you don’t understand about eucalyptus notes and the “cigar note”.

[Robert.A.Jr]

That’s fine.

Your palate, your money, your choice.

Some people don’t like eucalyptus notes that are clearly not from under ripe grapes but from the biome the grapes are grown while some do.

Wouldn’t that be part of the terroir?

Sure Robert, like that cigar box undertone you love on your Cote Roties and your Baudry.

Note that I put the eucalyptus comment in bold, not the cigar box. I think the former is terroir. The latter, depends. You are making my point in your following post.

[Brian_Tuite]

Smoke taint in Cabernet does not taste like smoke, it tastes harsh, with biting astringency like it needs time to develop. I’ve tasted samples of smoke tainted 2017 Cab from Will Segui and Mike Smith. They could never release something like that.

In 2020 we have to deal with the power of preconceived notion. If you spend enough time trying to pick apart a wine to find smoke taint (whether it be present or not) you will likely find something that will convince you it’s there. Barrel toast is a common one.

When Will tasted our group blindly on the tainted wine not one person called out a flaw and there were some pretty good palates around that table. To make a long story short, if you are looking for taint, you’ll find taint. If you aren’t you likely won’t.

[larry_schaffer]

Brian,

So are you implying that Jeb was predisposed to finding smoke taint before tasting the wines?

Cheers.

[larry_schaffer]

And do you think winemakers would knowingly submit wines if they had an inkling that their wines may be affected?

Remember - there does seem to be more of a push with 2020 to ‘characterize’ the smoky quality as a positive compared to 2017.

Cheers

[Greg_K]

Wouldn’t that be part of the terroir?

Sure Robert, like that cigar box undertone you love on your Cote Roties and your Baudry.

Note that I put the eucalyptus comment in bold, not the cigar box. I think the former is terroir. The latter, depends. You are making my point in your following post.

I know, I was being facetious. Of course, I’ve yet to see anyone dump a Heitz Martha due to all those weird eucalyptus notes.

[Brian_Tuite]

Brian,

So are you implying that Jeb was predisposed to finding smoke taint before tasting the wines?

Cheers.

It’s human nature. How can he not go into the tastings without that notion in the back of his mind? Not saying anything negative about Jeb or his palate. If you believe it you will see it?

[David_Bu3ker]

Remember - there does seem to be more of a push with 2020 to ‘characterize’ the smoky quality as a positive compared to 2017.

Huh? By who (other than Davies in this thread)?

[Brian_Tuite]

Of course I could be wrong and he correctly called out taint on 75% of the wines he tasted. Do you think that many winemakers would risk their reputation on a vintage where the entire World is expecting a flaw?

[Greg_K]

Brian,

So are you implying that Jeb was predisposed to finding smoke taint before tasting the wines?

Cheers.

It’s human nature. How can he not go into the tastings without that notion in the back of his mind? Not saying anything negative about Jeb or his palate. If you believe it you will see it?

With all due respect, you are basically saying Jeb took a view on the 2020 vintage before tasting and his palate isn’t good enough to show him his pre-conceived notions are wrong. Unless I misunderstood you?

I’m not sure there’s a lot of scope for agreements to disagree - seems either Jeb’s right and there’s a lot of smoke taint or you’re right and there’s not.

I’m a curious bystander, for the record - I don’t buy Napa cab and have no horse in the race.

[crickey]

Remember - there does seem to be more of a push with 2020 to ‘characterize’ the smoky quality as a positive compared to 2017.

Huh? By who (other than Davies in this thread)?

Jeb mentioned the same thing in his article.

[larry_schaffer]

Remember - there does seem to be more of a push with 2020 to ‘characterize’ the smoky quality as a positive compared to 2017.

Huh? By who (other than Davies in this thread)?

I’ve heard it mentioned by retailers and wine buyers on other threads elsewhere . . .

Cheers.

[crickey]

Of course I could be wrong and he correctly called out taint on 75% of the wines he tasted. Do you think that many winemakers would risk their reputation on a vintage where the entire World is expecting a flaw?

Since so many wineries chose not to make 2020s at all, I suspect some self-selection in the samples he tasted, i.e., small wineries hoping for the best.

[larry_schaffer]

Of course I could be wrong and he correctly called out taint on 75% of the wines he tasted. Do you think that many winemakers would risk their reputation on a vintage where the entire World is expecting a flaw?

Apparently yes . . .desperate times may call for desperate measures. Also, was he doing barrel samples? Finished bottles? With or without the winemakers present? Remember that smoke taint can be tricky- it can become unbound a year or two in bottle even . . .

[Jim_Anderson]

Of course I could be wrong and he correctly called out taint on 75% of the wines he tasted. Do you think that many winemakers would risk their reputation on a vintage where the entire World is expecting a flaw?

[Brian_Tuite]

Of course I could be wrong and he correctly called out taint on 75% of the wines he tasted. Do you think that many winemakers would risk their reputation on a vintage where the entire World is expecting a flaw?

Edit: After the 2008 Mendocino debacle.

[Andrew_Demaree]

Just one data point. I attended the Howell Mountain appellation tasting in Napa in October. Most of the wineries were showing their 2018 cabs, along with a couple other bottles. 2018 on Howell Mountain was a mixed bag, by most reports. Seems to have depended on where your vineyard is located. Some wineries, like Black Sears, dumped all of their cab that year. Others continued on as normal.

Not knowing the individual locations of many of the vineyards, I was curious what I would find at the tasting. The vast majority of the wines did not show smoke taint. A few did, though, including one really terrible example that I’m shocked was released. The winemaker is highly regarded and I was quite surprised he would’ve agreed to release it. Maybe he didn’t have the final say? There was nothing subtle about the smoke taint in that wine – the tannins were harsh and astringent and the palate was marred by an acrid burnt wood / bad barbecue profile that the wine has not shown in previous years. If I had bought multiple bottles of that for my cellar, I would be pissed.

Knowing that 2020 was a year where many more vineyards in Napa and Sonoma were exposed to smoke from the fires, I will be much more cautious about what I buy from that vintage. I am not somebody who skipped the 2011‘s or the 2017‘s; I expect vintage variation and don’t just buy wine in “perfect“ years. But, 2020 is clearly in a different league.

Reading about winemakers such as Morgan Twain-Peterson who are testing extensively and making tough decisions about not releasing certain wines from the vintage gives me confidence in buying from those producers. Winemakers who make wines from across a broad array of vineyards and plan to release everything give me a little more pause. Maybe everything is showing really well and there was no taint in any of those vineyards. It just seems a lot less likely given the extent of the exposure that year. Submitting wines for testing and sharing results for wines being released would go a long way in reassuring those of us who aren’t in a position to “taste before we buy”.