Sorry, didn’t see this until today. All three of the clubs offer different things to different types of audiences.
SommSelect (which I have not personally reviewed) is mostly designed to help you test your own wine knowledge (and learn to taste like a somm). Given the site’s reputation, I’d expect high-quality wines at fair prices (not exceptional). Every time I forward some obscure wine to an interested party, like an Armenian wine they featured a while back which I sent to an Armenian friend who loves wine, I’m told they already knew about the wine and could get it cheaper elsewhere. The site, to me, feels like a Somm… the job is to talk up a wine, using formally coded language, and make you excited to try it.
Picked (which I have reviewed) most closely resembles the “idealized” wine buying experience of walking into a wine store, telling them what you like and what you want to spend, and getting personalized recommendations. Unlike a staffer at a local wine shop, the recommenders are certified sommeliers with the largest inventory imaginable at their disposal.
Iconic is new. I’m not allowed to divulge any details until December 3. Based on knowing what’s in the inaugural shipment, I’d say it is an appropriate wine club for people who spend time on this forum… equal parts nerd, status, and value.
Btw, the entire Wirecutter staff are on strike - and they are asking folks to not click wirecutter site/links this weekend. See https://twitter.com/wirecutterunion.
I know this comment is a little off the topic of this thread, but I personally think SommSelect is a great service. I’ve gotten some really amazing wines from them and, while their prices are seldom the absolute lowest, their bottles are well chosen and excellently sourced. Their customer service is fantastic. They made a shipping error once and sent nearly $900 of wine to an old address of mine and they promptly gave me all the money back in store credit. I also had a corked Meursault that cost nearly $100 and they refunded the bottle no questions asked. The problem I have with most wine clubs is having to buy a bunch of wine that I don’t want, but SommSelect doesn’t require you to purchase anything- you just buy what interests you.
The best value of SommSelect though, for me at least, are their two daily emails. The language can be a bit hyperbolic, but I’ve learned so much by reading them. I joined as a relative wine newbie, and the teaching that comes into my inbox every day, for free, is invaluable. “Here’s a wine from Alsace, which is in Eastern France and borders on Germany. It’s made from Pinot gris, which is a mutation of Pinot Noir, and along with such and such grapes, are the noble grapes of the region” etc etc. Then they go over the producer, mention some other well known producers of the region, maybe mention an interesting story, or relevant history, and mention other wines to investigate. There are so many retailers/clubs out there, but I recommend at least checking this one out.
wow that’s great that Iconic is sourcing rare corporate Costco wine so everyone can use the never ending supply of Treasury Amex offers on it. and in a six pack, even better.
Thanks for the info. I don’t think a single-producer-per-shipment club is a great idea at all. The whole point of non-winery clubs is to get curated variety.
If I wanted that I’d sign up with the winery. I don’t think the pricing on this one is bad at all but I don’t know what I’d do with that wine since none of it is my likely my style. I would also resent getting two 2017 Napa wines unloaded on me, a full third of the case from the worst vintage in forever.
I was lurking this thread, Guillermo, but you got me to literally jaw drop at the shout out! Thanks man!
We don’t know the first thing about getting on a wine club review list like the Wirecutter’s one, but hopefully someday you’ll see our dorky offerings reviewed on there and noted as something special
For what it’s worth, I’ve always loved being a wine club member at my small/independent local wine shops rather than a large online one (if possible), since I get to chat with the staff about picks, and enjoy all the cool event programming that goes along with it. That said, as an owner of a small online one, we sure do appreciate the fact that folks from around the country can enjoy our selections + content!
I respectfully disagree. You wouldn’t join a winery club to get one shipment and then move on to a new winery shipment. Also, as noted, future shipments won’t necessarily be only one winery. For some wine drinkers, the opportunity to explore a single winery like this is unique, and therefore of value. There are existing wine clubs with this model and given their longevity, I’d say the concept has legs.
I’m sure you know that just because a vintage in a specific area has a bad rep doesn’t mean it applies equally to all wines produced in the region in that vintage and that those proclamations get reversed from time to time after wines have a chance to age.
I suppose if you are the sort of wine drinker who only ever wants to pick out what they deem as the wines worth buying there might not be a good wine club for you — no one else knows you like you.
I take it from your website that you make money when your readers link through to wine clubs and sign up. That’s not a crime, but it is relevant here when people read your recommendations.
Incidently, your Disclosure of Compensation page is commendably honest about possible biases and admirably clear. Your lawyer husband is good!
The Stag’s Leap on offer here is from a multi brand mega corporate that
a) routinely blows out their wine on Friends & Family sales on their site
b) doesn’t even use distributors in CA and OR, so they can get prices lower (or profits higher!)
c) has some crazy Costco deals at times
d) pretty much always has Amex Offers running on their lineup
e) has California supermarket prices that can be even better than (c) for some unique reasons
What is the value add of a Wine Club that is proffering constantly discounted, easily available product? Is it that they assume their customers are so stupid they don’t know they are getting stuffed with unsalable vintages? I’m not beating up on Treasury per se (I have plenty of their lineup and like even more bottlings) but on the idea that a club thinks its some value add to send out a box like that.
I’m actually in not one but two wine clubs: Ancient Wine Guys (signed up recently so haven’t yet gotten my first shipment) and WineAccess Michelin (from their fist shipment). Do I like every wine? No. Do I like most of the wines? Yes. Do I appreciate the curation and exploration? You bet. But what if they sent an entire box of the one producer I don’t like? Suddenly I’m out ~$200 ($300+ in Iconic) on a shipment worthless to me. That risk isn’t worth it. And I don’t think I’m unique in feeling that way.
But going back to the reason we’re talking about this… you said Iconic would be a good pick for Berserkers because “knowing what’s in the inaugural shipment… [you felt] it is an appropriate wine club for people who spend time on this forum… equal parts nerd, status, and value.”
Honestly there is nothing even remotely status (let alone Iconic) about 4 of those bottlings. Stags’ Leap Malbec anyone… That leaves the Petite Sirah (probably very good but from its worst vintage isn’t exactly status) and the Audentia Cab (YMMV… still probably good but it has an MSRP higher than MacDonald, if I could get on the list, and you can get it at Costco apparently… So again its status cred is suspect).
As for value, like I said, I don’t think it’s overpriced, but Arv makes excellent points.
The Petit Sirah is the only one with nerd cred. Nobody ever mentions Stags’ Leap on WB for anything else.
So, all in all, not a wise buy for people who frequent WB.
Is it fine for some people? I’m sure it is, but not for almost anyone here.
With all due respect, my suggestion would be that you recommend it for people who like brands and wine but know more about brands than wine (of course with nicer wording).
I think I misunderstood who hangs out here and why when I made those recommendations (or at least Iconic). Stags’ Leap is a status brand for a lot of people… just not the Wine Berserkers?
What is the value add of a Wine Club that is proffering constantly discounted, easily available product? Is it that they assume their customers are so stupid they don’t know they are getting stuffed with unsalable vintages? I’m not beating up on Treasury per se (I have plenty of their lineup and like even more bottlings) but on the idea that a club thinks its some value add to send out a box like that.
Arv’s point, from my experience, misunderstands the luxury wine market in general. Most people who want to drink expensive wine don’t have the time, much less the expertise, to source it and look for discounts. They’re not on wine mailing lists. I don’t think they’re stupid, I think they’re busy and they’re not as into wine as the Wine Berserkers.
FWIW, I love the Michelin club at Wine Access (also not necessarily every wine) and I’d not heard of the Ancient Wines club which I’m happy to know about.
Thanks, John. I’m glad you noticed the compensation disclosure, which also appears on nearly every page on the website. I try to be honest in my reviews and help people select the right wine club for them. It seems most wine clubs wouldn’t work for Wine Berserkers… and I’ve learned this week, maybe none would.
This is not really the target market for wine clubs, which make more sense for people who want help buying.
I think Berserkers would do better with the collections some sophisticated retailers put together, or simply asking a trusted retailer for advice. Or the Ridge Vineyards club, which provides a lot of really high quality, small lot, offbeat bottlings for people who like to explore.
First I want to stress that in no way any criticism that I have made has been meant to convey that you are dishonest (just in case). I think you were wrong about Iconic in relationship to Berserkers, but I think that was an honest, good faith mistake. I appreciate that you take the time to review the clubs. And you have to pay for it somehow. Wirecutter gets affiliate pay too.
Regarding clubs for people like Berserkers, I think you’d be right in recommending WineAccess Michelin to people like Berserkers (several are members). It comes with the added perk of 10% off WineAccess. And it forces one to try new producers in a not-too-expensive way with those restaurants putting their name on it too. The bottle I didn’t like (the Savennières they sent) was because I’m not into the style (also turned out to be a bad vintage), but I don’t think people who like oxidative winemaking would find it as offensive as I did.
Ancient Wine Guys just started out too. You might want to go check out their offerings in the NewbiePalooza area of the board. They gave us 4 different shipments to choose from, and the chance to sign up properly until actual Berserker Day with a discount. There’s nothing status about them but the nerd-cred (as you call it) is through the roof. I think you could recommend them too, especially for anyone into history and/or obscure wine areas.
I think John’s mention of the Ridge club is also on point for the reasons he mentioned, though I haven’t joined it because I buy Carlisle and Bedrock too and there’s only so much Zin a person can drink.
In fact if I had to point to one aspect that could make a wine club successful here it’s the geek factor it has, followed by QPR. It’s the reason so many people here buy from Fass or Panzer or even Rimmerman.
Finally Jessyca, please don’t take any criticism as a desire from me (or us) that you go back to lurking. I apologize if I made you feel that way. You’re a critic, not of wine but of clubs so it’s adjacent. You’re bound to get some arrows around here like Joe Czerwinski said. But I for one, and I think everyone, appreciate that you have a viewpoint and say it. We’ve all been wrong or in the minority at some point, and that’s ok. I think you provide a valuable service to a lot of people, certainly better than Wirecutter’s.
Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself and to make me feel welcome. As you know, it’s hard to read tone in text and I don’t speak “Wine Berserker” yet
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