Sweet Bordeaux Prices

[Marcus_Dean]

It’s a weird phenomenon where a lot of us admire and enjoy them but so rarely actually want to buy or open one. Obviously that doesn’t apply to Ashish, but it seems to for 99% of the rest of us.

I served a 99 d’Yquem at the end of a tasting full of serious heavy hitters a week ago (89 Palmer, 01 Sloan, 02 Shafer HSS, two 97 Diamond Creeks, others), and several thought it was the wine of the night. I still have some in my fridge. It’s my favorite d’Yquem I’ve had to date, somehow the sweetness is into the right balance with the secondary flavors in that bottle at this age, at least for my tastes.

I usually try to serve d’Yquem as a second or third wine and I find it gets a good reception in that position on the menu, at my 50th birthday dinner 3 months ago we never got around to opening any of the sweet wines for the final 2 courses of the dinner.

[Vince_T]

The last Sauternes or Barsac I bought were from the 2016 vintage. What have been your favorite vintages of these wines in the last decade or so. My favorite two wines in this period have been 2011 d’Yquem and 2014 Climens.

2014 Climens and rieussec are both great. But I liked 2016 Climens even better. Raymond-Lafon made a fantastic 2013, and when K&L put halfsies on clearance for $15 I practically cleared them out.

As for 2001 Suduiraut … I agree with Ashish that it’s crazy good—better than the Rieussec and Climens.

[David_Lewin]

It’s a weird phenomenon where a lot of us admire and enjoy them but so rarely actually want to buy or open one. Obviously that doesn’t apply to Ashish, but it seems to for 99% of the rest of us.

I served a 99 d’Yquem at the end of a tasting full of serious heavy hitters a week ago (89 Palmer, 01 Sloan, 02 Shafer HSS, two 97 Diamond Creeks, others), and several thought it was the wine of the night. I still have some in my fridge. It’s my favorite d’Yquem I’ve had to date, somehow the sweetness is into the right balance with the secondary flavors in that bottle at this age, at least for my tastes.

When it was released the 1999 d’Yquem was considered a lighter vintage and priced accordingly, $130 for a fifth, $65 for tenths. As a result I’ve managed to drink it several times and loved it.

[R_Frankel]

For me, any group dinner over 3 or 4 people is a good time for a Sauternes or similar sweet wine, but I buy mostly halves. Sadly, the last year or so there haven’t been many (any!) of those kinds of dinners.

[Herwig_Janssen]

Sauternes are the world’s most underrated wines . They go well with a lot more than dessert or foie gras , i.e. dry cheeses . Or as an aperitif with salty food .
I drink approx 6 bottles a month , for example always at the end of a tasting with my wine clubs .
The wines are delicious young , after 10 to 20 years and very old , they go on for ever ( had a d’Arche 1898 last week , perfect wine ) .The wines combine sweetness with a little acidity and remarkable subtile salinity , I love it more than any other sweet wine from anywhere in the world .
Yquem is of course fantastic , after that you have many others that will always shine : Suduiraud , de Fargues , Rieussec , Doisy Daene and many more .

[Howard_Cooper]

The last Sauternes or Barsac I bought were from the 2016 vintage. What have been your favorite vintages of these wines in the last decade or so. My favorite two wines in this period have been 2011 d’Yquem and 2014 Climens.

2014 Climens and rieussec are both great. But I liked 2016 Climens even better. Raymond-Lafon made a fantastic 2013, and when K&L put halfsies on clearance for $15 I practically cleared them out.

As for 2001 Suduiraut … I agree with Ashish that it’s crazy good—better than the Rieussec and Climens.

Thanks for all the info. Great to read about the 2016 Climens as I have several of those.

[Howard_Cooper]

It’s a weird phenomenon where a lot of us admire and enjoy them but so rarely actually want to buy or open one. Obviously that doesn’t apply to Ashish, but it seems to for 99% of the rest of us.

I served a 99 d’Yquem at the end of a tasting full of serious heavy hitters a week ago (89 Palmer, 01 Sloan, 02 Shafer HSS, two 97 Diamond Creeks, others), and several thought it was the wine of the night. I still have some in my fridge. It’s my favorite d’Yquem I’ve had to date, somehow the sweetness is into the right balance with the secondary flavors in that bottle at this age, at least for my tastes.

When it was released the 1999 d’Yquem was considered a lighter vintage and priced accordingly, $130 for a fifth, $65 for tenths. As a result I’ve managed to drink it several times and loved it.

Me too, although I think I paid more than $65 for my 1/2 bottles.

[David_Bu3ker]

Sauternes for me are part of a larger continuum across multiple regions that make sweet wines. German BA & Eiswein, Alsatian SGN & even the US examples such as the Navarro CSLH wines are all part of my buying. Laura and I went through a long stretch where we were not really drinking any of them, largely because by the time we got to “sweet wine time” (i.e. after the meal) we were too full/too tired to have one. So during the pandemic we have been opening bottles on Saturday afternoons while we either Zoom with wine friends or watch a movie. The wines are so delicious. I am thrilled we have found a new way to fit them into our life.

[Jayson_Cohen]

Sauternes for me are part of a larger continuum across multiple regions that make sweet wines. German BA & Eiswein, Alsatian SGN & even the US examples such as the Navarro CSLH wines are all part of my buying. Laura and I went through a long stretch where we were not really drinking any of them, largely because by the time we got to “sweet wine time” (i.e. after the meal) we were too full/too tired to have one. So during the pandemic we have been opening bottles on Saturday afternoons while we either Zoom with wine friends or watch a movie. The wines are so delicious. I am thrilled we have found a new way to fit them into our life.

Good idea. The problem for me, now that I think about it, is offsite storage from which I pull bottles usually for wine dinners and tastings. I rarely pull Sauternes, and I don’t have any in my 50 bottle wine fridge at home. I may pull a few half bottles to have around and drink somewhat like you are now doing.

[Anthony_C]

I use the Coravin for sauternes and it helps a lot with the logistical issues of “when will I drink a whole bottle”. I had a Guiraud in the fridge for almost 6 months and based on my notes was as good when we pulled the cork as the first Coravin pull. Fridge is a bit colder than I’d like it, so you have to plan ahead and pour with time to warm up, but it’s let me buy more Barsac/Sauternes than I normally would.

[Craig_G]

And I do love the 2001 Suduiraut but I’m surprised people disparaged their wines from the ‘80s. I remember being at the chateau and having a older lady pipette us a glass of the ‘82 which was excellent, not normally a good year for Sauternes.

The 82 is famously better than the 83, or at least it was - I haven’t had either in a long time. But people may be referring to the bunch of oxidized bottles from the late 80’s and 1990 that are out there. I believe that even a late released batch from the chateau was plagued with oxidation. They look and taste like Sherry.

[Arv_R]

And I do love the 2001 Suduiraut but I’m surprised people disparaged their wines from the ‘80s. I remember being at the chateau and having a older lady pipette us a glass of the ‘82 which was excellent, not normally a good year for Sauternes.

The 82 is famously better than the 83, or at least it was - I haven’t had either in a long time. But people may be referring to the bunch of oxidized bottles from the late 80’s and 1990 that are out there. I believe that even a late released batch from the chateau was plagued with oxidation. They look and taste like Sherry.

There was a lot of bad Guiraud that seemed to make it over here too from that era. Has kind of long term colored my perception of them.

[GregT]

Given the cost today of making wine at the top level how are these estates surviving?

By making dry wines. Same in Tokaj. They used to think it was a waste of grapes to make dry wines. But nobody drinks sweet wines these days - witness this thread. So to survive, they make dry wines.

That’s a good price for the 2001 for sure. I bought some futures then and have some older vintages, but in general would prefer Tokaji-aszu anyway, so don’t buy much Sauternes. But if the prices are good. . .

[David_Lewin]

And I do love the 2001 Suduiraut but I’m surprised people disparaged their wines from the ‘80s. I remember being at the chateau and having a older lady pipette us a glass of the ‘82 which was excellent, not normally a good year for Sauternes.

The 82 is famously better than the 83, or at least it was - I haven’t had either in a long time. But people may be referring to the bunch of oxidized bottles from the late 80’s and 1990 that are out there. I believe that even a late released batch from the chateau was plagued with oxidation. They look and taste like Sherry.

There were several disappointing vintages of Suduiraut, I can’t remember them all, but for me it started with the 1970, included the 1975, and may have included the 1983 (the last vintage I bought for myself). The biggest problem was the 1990 where I think there were multiple batches and some of the bottles were undrinkable (fortunately other friends shared them with my group, I had not bought any).

I recently bought some of the 2018 from K&L, but for a friend who got married in 2018 and wants Sauternes for her birthdays.

[Ed_Steinway]

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
Sauternes for me are part of a larger continuum across multiple regions that make sweet wines. German BA & Eiswein, Alsatian SGN & even the US examples such as the Navarro CSLH wines are all part of my buying. Laura and I went through a long stretch where we were not really drinking any of them, largely because by the time we got to “sweet wine time” (i.e. after the meal) we were too full/too tired to have one. So during the pandemic we have been opening bottles on Saturday afternoons while we either Zoom with wine friends or watch a movie. The wines are so delicious. I am thrilled we have found a new way to fit them into our life.

That is a great idea, David! I think we are going to give that a try tomorrow. Thanks for posting this!

Ed

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

2001 Suduiraut is a personal favorite that I have been “following since the beginning.” I bought about a case of it over the first few years after it was released, which is an astounding amount of one kind of sweet wine for me. I bought it more because I loved it and wanted to follow its development for decades than because I thought it would be a good investment. However, it is hard to justify opening a bottle without a large group because even though I love the wine, no one ever wants to drink more than about 4 ounces. My son, who loves sweet wine, will go nuts over it, so perhaps the solution is to open a bottle and drink it over a few days when he is visiting.

Since on a short term horizon (over a few days or a week), the wine is impervious to oxygen, perhaps the industry needs a new marketing approach. The wine that you can enjoy for a week. Sell it with a re-closure device or just suggest that you shove the cork back in, put it in the refrigerator, and have the rest tomorrow.

[AAgrawal]

This thread inspired me to open a half bottle of 01 Suduiraut. Great on day 1, exceptional on day 3. I plan on trying it for a few more days and expect it to continue to improve as previous bottles have.

[Anthony_C]

We did the slow Coravin of the 2001 Suiduirant. Lasted probably 8 months in the fridge. Very nice wine and it set the hook for us and Sauternes (the first being a Guiraud).

[Markus_S]

The 2001s mostly seem to be an exception to this - even other excellent (if not as singularly outstanding) vintages of the last 25 years seem to command only half the amount of the 2001s.

Yeah, the 01’s are beautiful. What gets me is how strong the botrytis character is on these still youthful wines.

[Keith_Levenberg]

I think my Sauternes consumption rate is about a bottle a year. Sauternes has a double problem IMO. Not only are dessert wines of all kinds tough to find a place for these days, but frankly I’d rather be drinking Tokaji, a Kracher TBA, German eiswein, etc. etc., usually for less money too.