Tasting OldVines in Whites??

WINE TALK
41

Fascinating topic! I have never found old vines to have a particular flavor profile (white or red), but, as others have said, think of old vines as being capable of producing greater concentration. I don’t there is any literal magic to old vines, remember that the Stag’s Leap that won the '76 Judgement of Paris was made from Cabernet vines only 4-5 years old. That being said, old vines, on average, tend to produce better wines. Not sure if this is a producer effect, i.e. better producers tend to work with older vine material, or something about the vines themselves. Probably a bit of both.

If you are interested in really old vine white wine, I would highly recommend Argyros “Cuvee Monsignori” Assyriko from Santorini. These vines are 200 years old and the wine is blindingly good. Also recommend you look into Lanzarote, where vines grow in old volcanic ash and are therefore largely immune to phylloxera. They have some really ancient Muscat vines that produce really good stuff. Also, look to Colares, which also has phylloxera free vines rooted in sand. Finally, you can try to find a bottle of this: The Remarkable Story Of The Oldest Living Grape Vine On Earth - Sediments - The Last Bottle Wines Blog

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42

I’ve heard the first Melon vines were 1919 and more were planted in the early '60s. Then a third wave of Melon. Then more recently the bizarro revisionist cover-up planting of actual Pinot Blanc.

Chenin and Chard were common. There’s absolutely no reason to even think those two weren’t what was claimed, including insider info and how the wines present.

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Do not for a moment assume that I know what I’m talking about when it comes to this area’s wine history! You’d easily have a much better grasp on this region than me, Wes.


To my recollection, what we know as Melon was mistakenly called Pinot Blanc for a time, and Chenin Blanc once went by the moniker “Pineau Blanc de la Loire”, adding to the confusion.


A Companion to California Wine (1998) by Charles Sullivan provided me with a better understanding of Chalone Vineyard (BW 4512):

FW Silvear had about 35 acres in the ground, mostly Chenin Blanc, when he sold his property to Almaden & Wente after the Repeal of Prohibition. What we now know as the Chalone winery went through a few different names: El Venido Vineyard, Mount Chalone Vineyard. Togni came into the picture around this period, until Rodney Strong (of Windsor Vineyards) got hold of the inventory. Then, Mr Graff and Co. assumed ownership in 1969.

Here’s what Sullivan’s book says about Pinot Blanc in relation to Chalone:

“Chalone has a few acres of Pinot Blanc, wines from these vines have been praised as the best of this varietal in the state, but there is some question about the identity of the variety that is in the vineyard.”

I don’t know how close “Antle Vineyard” is in distance to Chalone’s estate (if Chalone even occupies its original spot). Since Dick Graff had a hand in both sites, I guess it doesn’t really matter, however.

44

I have a bottle of 2016 Whipsmart “Sit in the Sun” Very Old Vine Muscadelle, unofficially sourced from the “Pagani Ranch”. I’ll post a TN if I ever pop it.

45

Revised, Alphabetical Roster of Extant

Old White Variety-Growing Vineyards:


• “Alta Vista Vineyard”, Moon Mountain - Gewürtztraminer

• “Bacigalupi Vineyard”, RRV - Chardonnay

• “Bedrock Vineyard”, Sonoma Valley -

• “Carlisle Vineyard”, RRV - Albillo Mayor, Clairette Blanche, Helena

• “Casa Santinamaria”, Sonoma Valley - Muscadelle

• “Cat Canyon Vineyard” (1978), Santa Barbara - Chenin Blanc

• “Chalone Vineyard” (1919), Chalone - Chenin Blanc

• “Cole Ranch” (1973), Cole Ranch - Riesling

• “Compagni Portis”, Sonoma Valley - Burger, Gewürztraminer, Riesling, Trousseau Gris, Rotler Vetliner, etc.

• “Evangelho Vineyard”, Contra Costa - Palomino

• “Fanucchi Vineyard”, RRV - Trousseau Gris

• “Gibson Ranch”, Mendocino - Grenache Gris

• “Hoffman Mountain Ranch”, Adelaida District - Chardonnay

• “Jackass Hill Vineyard”, RRV - Muscat

• “Jurassic Park Vineyard” (1978/82), Santa Ynez Valley - Chenin Blanc

• “La Bouef Vineyard” (1974), Santa Cruz Mtns - Chardonnay

• “Mancini Ranch”, RRV - Colombard, Muscadelle, Palomino

• “Monte Rosso Vineyard”, Sonoma Mountain - Semillon

• “Nelson Family Vineyard”, Mendocino - Riesling

• “Nervo Ranch”, Dry Creek Valley - Burger, Chenin Blanc, Sauvignon Blanc, Semillon

• “Nichelini Family Vineyards” Rose Block, Chiles Valley - Muscadelle

• “Oakville Farmhouse Vineyard”, Oakville - Colombard, Chenin Blanc, Malvasia Bianca, Semillon

• “Old Bailey Ranch” (1969), Adelaida District, SLO - Chenin Blanc

• “Old Hill Vineyard”, Sonoma Valley - Colombard, Chasselas, Clairette Blanc, Muscat

• “Pagani Ranch”, Sonoma Valley - Muscadelle, Golden Chasselas/Chasselas doré

• “Papera Ranch”, RRV - Trousseau Gris

• “Peter Martin Ray Vineyard”, Santa Cruz Mtns - Chardonnay

• “Peugh Vineyard” (1944), RRV - Chardonnay

• “Raffaini Family Vineyard”, RRV - Chasselas

• “Raube Vineyard”, Stanislaus Cnty - Colombard

• “Rochioli Estate Vineyard” (1959), RRV - Sauvignon Blanc

• “Rossi Vineyard” (1973), Rutherford - Riesling

• “Saitone Ranch”, RRV - Muscadelle, Palomino

• “Shell Creek Vineyard” (1972, own-rooted) - Chenin Blanc

• “Stony Hill Vineyard”, Napa Valley - Riesling

• “To Kalon Vineyard” I Block, Oakville, Napa Valley - Sauvignon Blanc

• “Trout Gulch Vineyard” (1980), Santa Cruz Mtns - Chardonnay

• “Two Acres Vineyard”, RRV - Helena

• “Vista Verde Vineyard”, San Benito County - Chenin Blanc

• “Wes Cameron Vineyard”, RRV - Colombard

• “Wirz Vineyard”, Cienega Valley - Riesling, Sauvignon Vert, Chardonnay, etc.

• “Wright’s Vineyard”, RRV - Colombard


Possible Candidate Vineyards:

• DeSante Vineyards once bottled three white wines from older plantings in Napa Valley:

The Napa Valley vineyard source for this wine is not divulged on the producer’s website.

Jack Varozza’s St Helena Chardonnay vineyard was the source for DeSante’s “Old Vine Chardonnay”, but I do not know whether the vines still exist. DeSante’s “Old Vine Chardonnay” bottling appears to have been discontinued after the 2014 vintage.

The vineyard source for this wine is not divulged on the producer’s website, presumably the “Varozza Vineyard”.


If you know of other old-vine plantings of white grape varieties, preferably those that are bottled in vineyard-designated wines, please share your contributions!

46

Peugh Vineyard Chardonnay – 1944 apparently. Anthill Farms makes a really nice wine from here

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47

La Boeuf Vyd, SCM - Chardonnay - planted 1974
Trout Gulch Vyd, SCM - Chardonnay - planted 1980
Peter Martin Ray Vyd, SCM - Chardonnay - planted early '80s

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48

Generally speaking, white wines made from older vineyard sources have not received a very great amount of attention. The promotion of Chenin Blanc by organizations like those below is inexorably intertwined with the variety’s large number of agéd plantings, particularly in South Africa.

Research conducted on behalf of the Chenin Blanc Association, Academie du Chenin, and viticulture departments in South African universities may help identify qualities unique not only to old-vine Chenin Blanc, but to white winegrapes at large.


Academie du Chenin
“Session VI - Taste, Tastes of Chenin Blanc”

“Towards Demonstrating the Concept of ‘Old Vine Character’ for South African Chenin Blanc Wines”
by Dr. Astrid Buica
(co-authors: Dr. Jeanne Brand, Ms. Mpho Mafata, & Ms. Valeria Panzeri)

"In this study, the first aim was to address the existence of the concept of ‘old vine character’ using a multifaceted approach.

"Wines were made from grapes from various age vineyards (5 - 45 years) but with the same winemaking practices. Industry experts were asked to evaluate the wines in a series of exercises that challenged their knowledge and preconceptions. The exercises varied from non-verbal (rating the wines presented on a scale from ‘none’ to ‘typical of old vine character’), to a free word association (what comes to mind if we say ‘old vine character’?), followed by a directed sorting (plus descriptors) of the wines into ‘young vine’ and ‘old vine’ groups.

“The increase in task complexity and verbalisation allowed us to work towards demonstrating the existence of a rather unified ‘old vine character’ concept and that this concept is defined by the industry experts’ previous knowledge (top-down process) and by the wines presented to them (bottom-up process). These results are part of an extensive work also looking into chemical markers of the ‘old vine character’, based on the findings of the sensory work.”


Old Vine Project
“Old Vine Chenin Blanc Research at Stellenbosch University”

"…Preliminary chemical results show that the old-vine wines can be distinguished from younger vineyard wines based on their volatile composition, thereby providing the first comprehensive chemical profiles of this important South African wine product category.

“The question is frequently asked by industry whether the old-vine Chenins are indeed different from Chenins produced from younger vines. Our sensory and chemical results indicate and support a positive answer to this much-debated question…”.



Academie du Chenin website:

Chenin Blanc Association website:

Old Vine Project (South Africa) website:

49

The number of old vineyards planted to white grapes in the Central Valley is largely unknown. I imagine that few survive nowadays, and probably are farmed for yields on an industrial scale.

Surely some noteworthy sites exist, tended without intemperate fertigation, and situated in locations that possess favorable climatatic and geological features.


I have not tasted the Adroît Colombard from the Raube Vineyard" in Stanislaus County. It may be one of the regional outliers of quality.

According to the winery website, Adroit is from the Seabold stable of wines, and the vineyard source is over 60-years-old.

50

From an August 20, 2021, Joseph Swan Vineyards email:


“…Over the years we have made wine from a large number of ‘alternative’ white grapes including pinot gris, gewurztraminer, marsanne, roussanne, viognier, grenache blanc, sauvignon musquee and even an unknown variety planted early in the last century (Angel’s Old Vine White).…”.

Williams-Selyem recently launched a duo of Russian River Valley old-vine field blends, named in honor of the Saitone family’s patriarch and matriarch. “Maria’s Field Blend” is the white bottling, consisting of varieties planted to the “Saitone Vyd”.

Perhaps Joseph Swan’s “Angel’s Old Vine White” is similarly named after some historical figure from the RRV’s annals?


I have combed the internet in search of any reference to this mystery bottling. No joy.

Has anyone heard about or tasted the Joseph Swan “Angel’s Old Vine White”?


Joseph Swan Vineyards website:
https://www.swanwinery.com/

51

Thank you for your help (as always, “a deep old file” for all matters Santa Cruz Mts)! [cheers.gif]


· “Le Boeuf Vineyard”

I was looking for additional information on these three vineyards. I found the following details on Sandar & Hem website, which led me to question claims about the true age of the Chardonnay vines at “Le Boeuf”:

“La Bouef Vineyard”

"Surrounded by towering redwoods and bordering the pristine Wilder Ranch State Park, this idylic Old-California site was planted in 1974 by Dr. Burney Le Boeuf, an Emeritus UC Santa Cruz professor who happens to be world’s authority on Elephant Seals. Blocks of heritage clone Chardonnay and Pinot Noir grafted to St. George rootstock are planted on gently-sloped decomposed granite soil. Strong maritime influence, rocky soil, and old vines drive extremely low yields resulting in wines of immense concentration, acidity, and character.

“We are thrilled to have the opportunity to take over stewardship of this vineyard from the Le Boeuf family and with an eye to preserving this incredible site we have converted to all organic viticulture, and have budded the 1.5 acre pinot noir block, which was originally planted to chardonnay, back over to heritage clones of chardonnay in the spring of 2020.”

I find the phrasing in the above passage somewhat muddled. What proportion, if any, of the original 1974 plantings remain?

After some more perusing, I am confident that some of the tiny “Le Boeuf Vineyard” contains old-vine Chardonnay.

Wine Berserkers forum
“Re: TN: 2019 Sandar & Hem Chardonnay Bald Mountain Santa Cruz Mountains”
by RobB
June 8, 2021

“The Le Boeuf vineyard is another site that has been a great pleasure to work with. The three acre site is on gently sloped decomposed granite and is surrounded by the towering redwoods of Wilder Ranch on three sides. It was originally planted by the owner Burney Le Boeuf in 1974 on St. George rootstock so the vines are approaching 50 years old…”.


· “Trout Gulch Vineyard”

The Kutch Wines website’s profile of the “Trout Gulch Vineyard” is incredible!

It appears that, prior to Bernie Turgeon’s association with the property on Trout Gulch Rd in Aptos, some vines were already in the ground. I didn’t know that the site was first owned by Ron and Helene Miller, and planted by “Jim Beauregard to Chardonnay clone 17 on AXR rootstock in 1980.”

Alfaro Family Vineyards & Wine website: “Vineyards”

"…Trout Gulch Vineyard

“Established in 1980, this 16 acre dry-farmed vineyard is nestled in the Santa Cruz Mountains near the coastal town of Aptos. The site sits at 750 to 800 feet above sea level and has well-draining sandy loam soil. Twelve acres are planted to the Robert Young clone of Chardonnay and four acres are planted to the Mt. Eden, Pommard and Martini clones of Pinot Noir. Its proximity to the sea (less than 4 miles inland) assures the grapes receive the cooling influence of the Monterey Bay, which is so desirable when crafting this premium wine.”


· “Peter Martin Ray Vineyard”

I would be surprised if the source of the historic Mt Eden Chardonnay Clone needed much introduction. Nevertheless, here are a couple winery profiles of the “Peter Martin Ray Vyd”, and one article from the Wine Terroirs blog:

Ceritas Wines website: “Vineyards”

Arnot-Roberts website: “Peter Martin Ray Vineyard”

Wine Terroirs blog
“Peter Martin Ray Vineyard (Grower)”
by Bertrand Celce
July 31, 2018

52

I just learned of a California producer whose focus is on old-vine Chenin Blanc: Rococo Wines. More to the point, its flagship single-vineyard bottling comes from a few rows of own-rooted Chenin Blanc within a larger Santa Barbara County vineyard.


"2020 ‘Own Rooted’ Chenin Blanc

“Located on the edge of the town of Los Alamos in an unappelated part of the County the vineyard sits west of the newly created AVA of Alisos Canyon. Protected from the influences of the sea by the coastal range it is warmer than Santa Maria to the North and Los Olivos to the South. Originally fifty acres planted in 1974, the fruit from this vineyard went into the famous bottlings by Carlo Rossi, and now only three acres remain of the original planting.”

The other sources of Rococo’s vineyard-designated Chenin Blancs include:

Chalone Vyd - 1919
Jurassic Park Vyd - 1978
Old Bailey Ranch Vyd - 1969
Shell Creek Vyd (own-rooted) - 1972
Vista Verde Vyd (“Pebble Ridge Block”) - ???
formerly sourced: Heringer Vyd - 1992?

Rococo Wines website:

53

Today on the Carlisle Facebook page, Mike Officer surveyed the state of the old-vine white varieties at “Compagni Portis Vineyard”:


Carlisle Winery & Vineyards
Facebook post: “Compagni Portis Vineyard”

Historic Vineyard Society profile: “Compagni Portis Vineyard”

Carlisle Winery & Vineyards website:

54

Should Rochioli Vineyard Sauvignon Blanc be on your list? IIRC they claim this is the oldest Sauvignon Blanc in the state and this portion of the vineyard dates back 60 years.

Tom

55

I Block Mondavi may be older?..

56

Thanks for the excellent suggestion, Tom!! [cheers.gif]


I am looking for some detailed info online related to the Rochioli’s “Old Vine” Sauvignon Blanc plantings. So far, I am not finding very much.

To my recollection, the Rochioli winery homepage once provided significantly more data about the producer’s history, estate vineyards, cellar practices, and wines. The mobile site is very stripped-down and offers little in the way of history or winemaking details.


Wine Mizer
“J. Rochioli Russian River Valley Old Vine Sauvignon Blanc”
by Jim
April, 2018

“…This Sauvignon Blanc is from California. Vines are estate grown in the Russian River Valley in Sonoma County. I had tasted Rochioli’s ‘Estate’ (blend) Sauvignon Blanc before. (see Wine Mizer: ROCHIOLI VINEYARDS SAUVIGNON BLANC 2017 ). The blend is not of varietals, but separate plots (all estate) and 55% of that blend is harvested from the original 1959 plot from which this single vineyard (‘Old Vines’) Sauv Blanc is exclusively made…”.


The Rochioli winery website includes a map of the estate vineyard and details about each parcel. There are three separate plots of Sauvignon Blanc:

· Planted in 1959 - “Old Vines” (10 acres)
· Planted in 1985 - “Old Vines Selection” (2.8 acres)
· Planted in 2001 - Clone 376 (3.4 acres)


Rochioli Vineyards website:
https://www.rochioliwinery.com/

57

I have a few Rochioli OV SB and it’s always been super (almost an understatement) acidic and mineral driven.

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58

The “Aparicio Vineyard” is registered with the Historic Vineyard Society as a source of old Zinfandel plantings dating back to the 1880s.

According to Haarmeyer Wine Cellars (St Rey), the own-rooted Chenin Blanc vines in the “Aparicio Vyd” are from a 1973 replanting.


From Haarmeyer website’s “Aparicio Vyd” profile:

"Aparicio:
"Sutter Creek - Chenin Blanc, Zinfandel

"Aparicio Vineyard was planted to Zinfandel and Carignan in 1934 at the top of Ridge Road just outside Sutter Creek, CA, by Santos Aparicio. The soil is a remnant of a Mehrten mud flow, which is a volcanic conglomerate of iron rich clay and andesite cobbles. This deposit overlies slate and green schists. There is no water on the property whatsoever, so the vines were established by watering them by hand from a barrel that was filled in the creek below and hauled up to the vineyard by mule. In 1973, Joe Aparicio took over for his father and planted Chenin Blanc in the same fashion: own-rooted, head-trained, and watered by hand.

“Today John and Steve Murrill, Joe’s neighbors, farm the vineyard just as Joe and his father farmed it: naturally, sustainably, utilizing cover crops, and methodical pruning. We pick Zinfandel and Chenin Blanc from this his magnificent vineyard.”


Wine Berserkers forum
“St. Rey / Haarmeyer Wine Cellars Release - Chenin!”
by ChrisU
April 21, 2017

Historic Vineyard Society profile: “Aparicio Vineyard”

59

Man this stuff gets a little overly detailed at times, but I do like reading about the old vine stuff and how much of it has survived until now!

Been meaning to try out Haarmeyer Chenin for some time now…

60

You should man! If you like dry, high-acid chenin, you’ll dig em!

Don’t sleep on the reds either! No disrespect to Teagan or Harvey/D&R, but Craig’s Mataro is the best domestic example I’ve ever had.

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