Terry Theise / Michael Skurnik

[Keith_Levenberg]

It sounds like this may not have too big of an effect on me as a consumer in terms of pricing and availability (though we’ll see), but the catalogs would be a huge loss. I hope all the old ones at least get archived online somewhere, whether by Skurnik, Theise, or someone else.

Bet we could crowdsource a pretty thorough collection here…

[JulianD]

Always really enjoyed reading his vintage assessments/wine previews.

[David_Bu3ker]

It sounds like this may not have too big of an effect on me as a consumer in terms of pricing and availability (though we’ll see), but the catalogs would be a huge loss. I hope all the old ones at least get archived online somewhere, whether by Skurnik, Theise, or someone else.

Bet we could crowdsource a pretty thorough collection here…

I have them going back to I think the 1996 vintage.

[Ken_V]

“As you may have heard, we recently ended our business affiliation with Terry Theise. All producers from Germany, Austria and Champagne imported by Skurnik Wines will continue to be imported by Skurnik Wines and available through our nationwide network of distributors.

Gabe Clary, Vice President and Portfolio Manager for our “Germany, Austria and Champagne Estate Selections,” will head up this portfolio going forward, and we have the utmost confidence in his leadership for the future. We look forward to proudly representing these great producers for many years to come.

If you have any questions, please contact your Skurnik representative.”

Where is this from?

Ah, Skurnik.

I meant did it come from an email or their website or twitter or . . . because I could not find it online.

[Martin_Steinley]

Ken, it came from my Skurnik rep, who explained that it was the “official announcement.” (I had asked him about the situation the the day before and he explained what Ian reported above.)

[Neal.Mollen]

“As you may have heard, we recently ended our business affiliation with Terry Theise. All producers from Germany, Austria and Champagne imported by Skurnik Wines will continue to be imported by Skurnik Wines and available through our nationwide network of distributors.

Gabe Clary, Vice President and Portfolio Manager for our “Germany, Austria and Champagne Estate Selections,” will head up this portfolio going forward, and we have the utmost confidence in his leadership for the future. We look forward to proudly representing these great producers for many years to come.

If you have any questions, please contact your Skurnik representative.”

Where is this from?

Ah, Skurnik.

I’m not sure I would read a nasty divorce into the fact that they’ve taken his stuff off the site. It was his IP when he wrote the stuff, and I am sure they had a agreement about what would happen to it if there was a dissolution of the relationship. Could have been nasty; also could have been entirely amicable.

+1

It may not have been nasty, and hopefully wasn’t, but it would be a bizarre way to end amicably a long-term relationship of the sort involved here. All evidence suggests that it wasn’t amicable. In the end, I don’t know that it matters, other than it’s a shame and perhaps results in Theise having a competing import business to the extent that he is not legally precluded from doing so.

I disagree that it is any evidence at all, one way or another. The day after I left my firm, my bio was deleted from the firm’s website, because leaving it there would suggest a continuing relationship that no longer exists. If I were Terry, I would not want a business with whom my relationship had ended to be using my name to promote their products, especially if I intended to continue doing work in the field.

Again, I have no knowledge about the basis for the split. I am just saying that drawing a conclusion about the nature of the separation from the fact that he no longer appears on the website is a mistake.

[Alan_Rath]

I disagree that it is any evidence at all, one way or another. The day after I left my firm, my bio was deleted from the firm’s website, because leaving it there would suggest a continuing relationship that no longer exists. If I were Terry, I would not want a business with whom my relationship had ended to be using my name to promote their products, especially if I intended to continue doing work in the field.

Again, I have no knowledge about the basis for the split. I am just saying that drawing a conclusion about the nature of the separation from the fact that he no longer appears on the website is a mistake.

It’s probably different in a law firm, but plenty of academic and even business entities have emeritus relationships, or just historical perspective. I do think we can infer in this case that it wasn’t something as benign as Terry retiring, in which case I would hope skurnik would celebrate his contributions. It seems likely to have been a less than amicable split.

[Alan_Rath]

It sounds like this may not have too big of an effect on me as a consumer in terms of pricing and availability (though we’ll see), but the catalogs would be a huge loss. I hope all the old ones at least get archived online somewhere, whether by Skurnik, Theise, or someone else.

Bet we could crowdsource a pretty thorough collection here…

I have them going back to I think the 1996 vintage.

I have quite a few in a google drive folder I have shared with a number of people. Luckily, they don’t change much from year to year

[Jayson_Cohen]

Where is this from?

Ah, Skurnik.

+1

It may not have been nasty, and hopefully wasn’t, but it would be a bizarre way to end amicably a long-term relationship of the sort involved here. All evidence suggests that it wasn’t amicable. In the end, I don’t know that it matters, other than it’s a shame and perhaps results in Theise having a competing import business to the extent that he is not legally precluded from doing so.

I disagree that it is any evidence at all, one way or another. The day after I left my firm, my bio was deleted from the firm’s website, because leaving it there would suggest a continuing relationship that no longer exists. If I were Terry, I would not want a business with whom my relationship had ended to be using my name to promote their products, especially if I intended to continue doing work in the field.

Again, I have no knowledge about the basis for the split. I am just saying that drawing a conclusion about the nature of the separation from the fact that he no longer appears on the website is a mistake.

Neal is right. I can think of numerous prudent legal reasons both sides would want his name and materials removed from the website, if that was their choice, even if they separated on entirely amicable terms.

[Neal.Mollen]

I disagree that it is any evidence at all, one way or another. The day after I left my firm, my bio was deleted from the firm’s website, because leaving it there would suggest a continuing relationship that no longer exists. If I were Terry, I would not want a business with whom my relationship had ended to be using my name to promote their products, especially if I intended to continue doing work in the field.

Again, I have no knowledge about the basis for the split. I am just saying that drawing a conclusion about the nature of the separation from the fact that he no longer appears on the website is a mistake.

It’s probably different in a law firm, but plenty of academic and even business entities have emeritus relationships, or just historical perspective. I do think we can infer in this case that it wasn’t something as benign as Terry retiring, in which case I would hope skurnik would celebrate his contributions. It seems likely to have been a less than amicable split.

Emeritus status? I suppose something like that would be possible, but I’ve never heard of such a thing in a private for-profit sales business. There is no suggestion that Terry is retiring or leaving the wine business altogether, and under most circumstances, someone in his position would want to retain control over the use of his name. Concluding that some sort of animus from the absence of such an arrangement seems like a real stretch.

My last word on the subject; my numerous posts in this thread might suggest a level of interest that vastly exceeds reality. I don’t really GAF. I just think that it is inaccurate, and perhaps unhelpful to Terry and/or Skurnik, to suggest that this was a bitter parting when absolutely nothing of which I am aware suggests that to be true.

[Alan_Rath]

I probably watched too many TV lawyer shows lol. I do care a bit, just because I know Terry, have bought and drunk a lot of his wines over the years, and have an interest in the portfolio in the future. Having a page on their website would serve the purpose of avoiding the speculation we’re going through, if thats of any value to them.

[Alan_Rath]

Emeritus status? I suppose something like that would be possible, but I’ve never heard of such a thing in a private for-profit sales business.

The two old-line Silicon Valley tech companies I worked for had a lot of historical articles, celebrating contributions of not only founders, but numerous individual retired contributors. That might not be the case any more for more recent companies.

Seems kind of depressing to think a company wants to wipe clean any presence of former employees, particularly when they retire on good terms.

[Markus_S]

FYI, the details of Skurnik’s Midwest expansion: Last year it bought Vintner Select, an Ohio-based distributor operating in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana. (Link to press release.)

Oh no, Skurnik becoming the next Southern…

[Peter_Shurman]

Perhaps those of you that KNOW Mr Theise, can get in touch with him and have him explain just what went down.

[GregT]

What! And have actual facts to discuss?

No way.

But I agree with Neal. Whatever the reason, it’s happened many times in the wine business. For whatever reason, an importer decides not to work with someone or vice versa. Could be because a more interesting offer came along for one side or the other, there’s a difference of opinion, one side wants to cut back and move into something else, etc. Lots of reasons, mostly benign.

And especially if someone like Terry is continuing in the business, neither side would want Skurnik to keep advertising his selection as if they were still handling it.

Ultimately it’s about business. While people may have liked Terry’s writing and catalogs, etc., he’s a merchant, not a tenured professor or service professional. And even in law, PR, real estate, finance - if someone leaves one firm to go to another, the old firm doesn’t maintain nostalgic pictures and articles about the individual. Everyone just moves on.

[Dan_Kravitz]

I know something about the way-back story:

From 1982 - 1984 I worked for Gordon Palmateer, who established a wine distributorship in Washington, D.C. under the name Mar-Salle Imports, financed by a distiller of that name in the Midwest. During that time (I would guess 1983) we were approached by Terry Thiese who wanted us to clear wines from German growers he represented. Palmateer turned it down and he went to Kronheim. His first year with them was no later than 1984.

I probably haven’t talked to Terry in 20+ years, but have always been impressed by his knowledge and passion. While I was always verbose, he was over the top, in a good way. I sadly have to agree that it is unlikely that this separation was amicable… unless we hear otherwise from Terry, with an announcement of his next project and blessings on Skurnik.

IMO Skurnik has always been a very reputable and ethical organization. IIRC we discussed doing something together about 20 years ago and agreed that it did not make sense. I wish both Terry and Skurnik well.

No surprise that in the most difficult times the European wine import business has faced in my 35+ year career that there can be fallout as well as fallings-out. While many French and Spanish wines can dodge the tariffs, little if anything from Germany can come in over 14% (and who would want it to?). If what I’ve read is correct, in 2019 wine consumption in this country dropped in total gallonage for the first time in 25 years (I would assume seltzer is responsible). Even prosperous, hard-core Riesling nuts will be thinking about what they are drinking. I hope this wasn’t what precipitated the separation of Thiese from Skurnik, but have to believe it could be part of the story.

I wish Terry well.

Dan Kravitz

[Martin_Steinley]

I, too, couldn’t care less about the parting of ways, other than I hope that it works out well for both parties and that the wines on which they collaborated continue to be available. However, the inductive reasoning regarding on what terms they parted is fairly simple: All Theise material being abruptly removed from the Skurnik website, plus an official announcement by Skurnik which fails to mention anything about the long-term relationship and fails to send Theise off with an expression of gratitude and well wishes, means that it is unlikely that this was amicable. It may have been, but probably not. (It reminds me that a retailer selling wine far below market and taking years to deliver is probably not legit, but some conclude and argue otherwise.)

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I, too, couldn’t care less about the parting of ways, other than I hope that it works out well for both parties and that the wines on which they collaborated continue to be available. However, the inductive reasoning regarding on what terms they parted is fairly simple: All Theise material being abruptly removed from the Skurnik website, plus an official announcement by Skurnik which fails to mention anything about the long-term relationship and fails to send Theise off with an expression of gratitude and well wishes, means that it is unlikely that this was amicable. It may have been, but probably not. (It reminds me that a retailer selling wine far below market and taking years to deliver is probably not legit, but some conclude and argue otherwise.)

Your last sentence appears to be wildly off base.

[mmarcellus]

And especially if someone like Terry is continuing in the business, neither side would want Skurnik to keep advertising his selection as if they were still handling it.

Unless I’m completely misreading the announcement from Skurnik quoted above, Skurnik is continuing to handle the portfolio.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

While I was always verbose, he was over the top, in a good way. I sadly have to agree that it is unlikely that this separation was amicable… unless we hear otherwise from Terry, with an announcement of his next project and blessings on Skurnik.

Thanks for the insights Dan. If your verbosity approaches Terry’s…

RT