This is really bad for Berserkers. It will eliminate the semi-annual 20 page thread on what the proper tip should be on an expensive bottle of wine.
Yeah, from here on down it’s uphill all the way.
I have been looking forward to the day that tipping is eliminated, and restaurant management pays their workers what they think they are worth to the business, instead of guilting me into doling out charity to my server in hopes that they can afford to make rent that month.
We’ll discuss instead the fresh topic of “why should I pay for service on top of a corkage fee?”
They can move to the front of the house and make living wages, no? ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
Honestly, it’s a free market and that’s how I like to treat anything and everything. If you’re not happy with your job or happy with what you’re making go do something else. Expecting somebodies hard work to cover what your employer should pay you it’s just crazy. Wholesale chicken breast costs $2 and restaurants charge upwards of $20 for it. Those 18 dollars goes to cover salaries of BoH and other expenses.
I’m sorry but that makes no sense. Bowing to some putative example of capitalism without even stopping to consider whether the alternative would be any less competitive is absurd. If anything this is an excellent example of how in the US we assume that any system we have in place - all too often some form of highly predatory mercantilism - is the best system, and that any other system would be inferior. That kind of small-minded, exclusionary thinking can only serve to limit innovation. In reality the alternative suggested is no less a capitalist system than is the tipping model. Is McDonald’s not a capitalist enterprise? I suspect it is. Danny Meyers isn’t handing the extra money out to the homeless near his restaurants, he’s giving it to his workers, likely (at least in part) in the hopes that they will work harder and that there will be less turnover. He may lose servers if they don’t make as much money, but he may well gain talent in the back of the house in the exchange. Nothing anti-competitive about it.
That’s the thing, unless the server was knowingly phoning it in there’s no way to know whether the customer was unhappy or just a jerk. If the former, then was she unhappy with the food or the service? It is a poor indicator of anything. If the server was knowingly do a poor job then the “signal” is of little value anyway.
I’m a capitalist and don’t like the socialism of no tipping. Go to a restuarant in France and see how great of service you get on a everyday basis. They have no reason or motivation to care how you think their service is for you. It is human nature to work for a reward.
Actually, does anyone know when these fancy restaurants go to no tipping whether they also increase their wine list prices and/or corkage fee? The logic would seem to be the same, though I somehow tend to think they don’t do it. If the $90 wine becomes $110, that’s probably a pretty big psychological difference to the customer notwithstanding the fact that you don’t tip on it anymore.
I know. People who leave terrible tips must be terrified at the thought of increased prices instead of tips.
I don’t know the specific answer to that question, but I’m confident Per Se’s (obnoxiously priced) wine list is designed to take into account a significant gratuity on each bottle. And indeed, Per Se’s wine prices act as a deterrent to myself and others – it’s well worth it to pay the $90 (or whatever it is these days) corkage to bring something good, rather than pay 500% markups.
Ryan, no doubt they were very high already at these types of places, but I’m wondering if these Danny Meyer restaurants, for example, crank the 30-35% increase on top of what they were before. Ditto for other places that have made that change.
For example, I’m looking at the Gramercy Tavern wine list now. I don’t know if these are the same prices they had a week ago or not, but let’s say they are. 2006 Leoville Poyferre is $235 (current WSPro low is $65 by the way at the Chicago Wine Co.). If it gets the same bump as the food, that marks it up to $306 (30%) or $317 (35%).
Anyone buying a 2006 Leoville Poyferre for over $300?
But are we just conditioned to think that? Do you tip your accountant? Your auto repair guy? Plumber? Comcast service guy? store clerk (when they spend time with you help you find the right size/outfit)? Why are restaurant servers the ones who need to be bribed to provide good service?
Ha! The corkage is now $150 per bottle. It still might be worth it, but probably only for bottles that retail in excess of $100.
I figure if you can pay $1,000+ for a 2-person dinner, it’s probably worth your while to go to Crush or something and spend $250 on a great bottle of wine to match.
I’d like to live in a world where tips are not expected, let alone required. A few restaurants in Seattle are taking that approach, but getting all restaurants on the program is going to be difficult.
The phase in of the $15/hr. minimum wage here will provide impetus. Few people realize, though, how much the wait staff makes in high end restaurants and bars, compared to what the kitchen staff or lunch counter servers make. Even fewer are going to look at a menu with 30% higher prices and say to themselves, “That’s OK. I won’t have to add a tip”. It also isn’t a minor deal that the higher prices will be subject to our nearly 10% sales tax, while tips are not.
P Hickner
When I was younger I worked both sides. (just summers in a regular eatery, nothing like a Danny Meyer venue)
Neither were pleasant.
But the reality was that even if the guys in the back wanted to get the better spots, it was tough for them because of the issues I mention.
Those issues hold people back not just from being a waiter, but from all kinds of more remunerative roles.
Sorry if that reality is uncomfortable.
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My belief is that people have the right to make choices that will improve their lives. I’ve never thought it made any sense for people to get CIA degrees to get jobs as prep cooks. But young people make poor educational investment choices all the time. My general life advice to young people who ask for career guidance - don’t do anything that can be done by low skilled labor. If someone can make up a plastic laminated card, with no words, for what the job is supposed to be, one will be competing with all the low skilled labor out there for that job. If the job is higher skilled – and waiters/bartenders/sommeliers/hosts are sometimes skilled salespeople – and the job duties are harder to put on a laminated card then it will not have its wages competed down. Note that Danny Meyer does seem to express some concern that his best salespeople/waiters may realize that the new comp structure means they will be giving up some of their upside for a more ‘socially just’ distribution of their patrons spending. Eventually they will find out if this is sustainable. Perhaps the value added by those best waiters isn’t as much as they like to think, and that mgmt. is scared about.
It would be wonderful if everyone made a living wage, but that’s Utopia, not this planet. Helping people develop marketable skills that let them earn a living wage is more sustainable that just declaring (by fiat) that all of Danny Meyers customers are going to ‘right this wrong’. It sounds noble but the restaurant biz is hard enough with mere filthy lucre as a goal; adding social engineering and wage justice sounds makes it even harder.
All that being said, next time I’m back, I’ll give one of his spots a whirl.
So BoH folks are all non-English speaking guys with immigration issues and gang tats?
Good to know.
Honestly I did not read the Eater article but skimmed the one you linked. I think my point stands. The feature that’s the trigger, but not completely necessary, is the pooling. Many restaurants currently don’t pool and most didn’t in the past. They relied on informal encouragement and cooperation between the staff to achieve trickle down. Honestly I don’t know why that dynamic has been alleged to be ineffective recently but I don’t think it I an unworkable system. It may have benefits, but there is certainly an alternative to removing the patron’s ability to determine the direct server’s gratuity. Plus charging 25% in lieu of tip is both changing the dynamic and raising prices, along with enabling the restaurant to legally keep an ever-changing amount of the charge. That’s ok, but call a spade a spade. I would trust someone like Meyer to continually pass along the charge appropriately. But my wife works in the bev. distribution industry and MANY restauranteurs find it hard to profit and more than a few have had issues with their hands on the tips.
I think you’re distorting Arv’s words for the sake of argument, and if we’re being honest with each other here instead of saying what you’re supposed to say, there is a big difference in general and overall between the back of house restaurant staff and the hosts/hostesses/servers/bartenders, in terms of appearance, English skills, ethnicity, education, and so forth. Especially at these kinds of elite high-end restaurants that are the ones making noises about eliminating tipping.
I expect that is true to some degree in Paris, Rome and London as well.